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Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

texastribune.org

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Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#121

Post by kbenson »

claytongulick wrote: post #96
harshreality wrote: post #6

> Neither UTMB nor Texas A&M would confirm what Alonzo said that prompted such a reaction, and UTMB students interviewed by the Tribune recalled a vague reference to Patrick’s office but nothing specific. Without knowing what was allegedly said, this is difficult to judge, although I would certainly be inclined to side with the professor given what's been reported so far. Professors should be given wide latitude to d…

All in all, it seems like this was a situation where the process worked. - She said some stuff as a visiting speaker she probably shouldn't have in that context, or at least was taken wrong by some folks in the audience. - Attendees complained - She was formally censured by the hosting university that knew what the comments were - Due to the censure, her employer investigated - She was cleared, life went on - Newspap…

> She was formally censured by the hosting university that knew what the comments were

She was formally censured by that institution with no evidence supplied, and that institution continues to refuse to provide any evidence of what she's censured for.

Without that evidence, why should we view this as anything other than a political hit job from the Governor? It's indistinguishable from that without evidence of what they're censuring for and with the evidence of student attendees that the statements they think might be the cause are fairly benign and based on facts and/or assessment by a per-eminent professional in that field without evidence to the contrary.

Is it the newspapers twisting it into a right wing suppression of speech story, or is it really just a right wing suppression of speech story that the newspapers are doing their job bringing to the public's attention?

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#122

Post by mjamil »

jeffbee wrote: post #61
breckinloggins wrote: post #29

Not the way I would have preferred to see my Alma mater on HN, but not exactly shocked, either.

The only two things I've read about my alma mater recently were this, and the thing about the president being overthrown by what resembles a military coup, for the crime of trying to reestablish the school of journalism.

Jeff, where's your interpretation of events surrounding the president's resignation based on?

My understanding was that the journalism school extended a written 5-year tenure-track offer to a candidate signed by the journalism school head. The offer was then mysteriously revised (still with school head signature intact) to a 1-year non-tenure-track offer without the knowledge of the journalism school. When the candidate asked for an explanation, they were told it's because she's a Black woman that has worked at the NYT, and that the powers-that-be at A&M objected to her hiring. She then received a verbal third offer for a 3-year contract.

The candidate made all info available to a local paper, kicking off a firestorm. This led to a (funny, imo) call between the president and faculty where the president claimed she did not know where the multiple offers came from and why, and who had communicated with the candidate about the black/nyt stuff. When asked - in that case - whether the first offer was still good, she demurred. The faculty clearly lost faith in her leadership at this point. She resigned the day after this meeting.

The candidate wisely has chosen to work elsewhere.

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#123

Post by rsynnott »

> The Texas A&M University professor had just returned home from giving a routine lecture on the opioid crisis at the University of Texas Medical Branch in March when she learned a student had accused her of disparaging Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick during the talk.

Very Soviet.

Is this a weird Texas thing, or is it normal for American universities? It's virtually impossible to imagine here; universities are more or less ground zero for criticising the government.

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#124

Post by vel0city »

neilv wrote: post #83
vkou wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas's attorney general has had been both state, and federally indicted for fraud for the past 8 years, and has successfully stalled the case, on the basis[1] that as long as he's a Republican politician, he can't get a fair trial. He's only been impeached for it this year . There is no oversight to be had in that kind of single-party state. If you're wondering about what the end game of that sort of thing looks lik…

How do tech workers in Texas cities like Austin feel about being under that?

I'm no fan of these nutjobs at the wheel, but one important thing to consider is you don't have to be a leftist to be a "tech worker". There's lots of right-leaning tech workers out there. And since Texas has a few tech-focused cities in the South, there's quite a mix of people. Its not like there's just a some leftist tech workers in a sea of right-wing ranchers in Texas.

I know a lot of people who are pretty smart tech people who would argue for the repeal of Roe v. Wade, are pro school vouchers, want a flat tax rate, want to see prayer in schools, etc.

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#125

Post by whynotmaybe »

confoundcofound wrote: post #59
Animats wrote: post #26

Crackdowns on free speech are increasing worldwide. Afghanistan, Russia, China, Hong Kong, Florida, Texas... Israel just reached the using fire hoses on protestors level.[1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/25/world/middleeast/israel-j...

This is what happens when free speech is not valued and defended throughout our culture. Politics is downstream from culture. When we are OK with, and often encouraging of, private censorship, we shift the Overton window and provide moral cover for politicians and government entities to further consolidate power. This story is a prime example. People who peddle the argument that the 1st amendment only protects you fr…

Free speech doesn't mean free of consequences of your speech.

You can say whatever you want but if it offends your employer, don't be surprised if they fire you.

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#126

Post by stevenwoo »

blantonl wrote: post #105
stevenwoo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first year medical school student who started things is the daughter of a GOP state official, she didn't fall far from the tree despite wanting to be a doctor.

This is equivalent to the daughter basically saying "do you know who my daddy is?" Deplorable.

Both her parents are doctors but both parents' made alot of money from for profit schools preying on veterans (NAU http://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/for_profit_report/Conte...) and that help pay for the campaigns to start her mothers political career so not a lot of self introspection being done in the family.

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#127

Post by Turner1996 »

mikeyouse wrote: post #34

It's worth knowing more details than the headline here: 1. Professor Joy Alonzo, who's an expert in Opiod harm-reduction gave a talk where according to all accounts, she mildly critiqued the Lt. Governor and state's preferences for punitive approaches for drug control and that they are considered Federal non-reporters on Opioid stats since they don't collect the data required. 2. Dawn Buckingham, the TX Land Commissi…

She said Dan Patrick is responsible for an increase in deaths associated with fentanyl because they didn’t take her suggestion for testing strips vs more severe sentences for dealers and pushers.

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#128

Post by mrguyorama »

vxNsr wrote: post #68
ceejayoz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think Trump's team only ever asked for one single tweet to come down, I don't know what to tell you. Again, censorship requests aren't a First Amendment violation. Joe Biden can request you go fuck yourself. He cannot order you to go fuck yourself. The Twitter Files make it quite clear Twitter etc. understood this distinction. For example, here's a Twitter Files post of them saying "go get a court order" to a…

Wow, why does it always feel like I get into this same merrygoround every 6 months with the same goalposts being retreated to the same positions, with each argument until we’re suddenly talking about how Reagan once brushed past a reporter so clearly his party is the authoritarian one. It’s so tiring. We went from politicians ordering (with implied threats) political action from private citizens to the FBI requesting…

Because you are absolutely full of shit and not acting in good faith. You claimed "companies acting in lockstep", and then the other guy provided multiple sourced examples of of twitter employees giving the feds a clear "Nope, not going to happen", which IS NOT LOCKSTEP

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#129

Post by phone8675309 »

rsynnott wrote: post #123

> The Texas A&M University professor had just returned home from giving a routine lecture on the opioid crisis at the University of Texas Medical Branch in March when she learned a student had accused her of disparaging Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick during the talk. Very Soviet. Is this a weird Texas thing, or is it normal for American universities? It's virtually impossible to imagine here; universities are more or less grou…

Lt Gov Dan Patrick and Gov Greg Abbot are both thin skinned fascists who are leading their state into a new dark age.

Come and get me, Texas Rangers.

Re: Texas A&M suspended professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Patrick in lecture

#130

Post by smsm42 »

bozhark wrote: post #84
Animats wrote: post #26

Crackdowns on free speech are increasing worldwide. Afghanistan, Russia, China, Hong Kong, Florida, Texas... Israel just reached the using fire hoses on protestors level.[1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/25/world/middleeast/israel-j...

Israel just removed their judicial branches ability to review government actions. The hose just got a lot bigger.

This is not at all what happened. What actually happened is that the parliament slightly restricted the number of reasons the Supreme Court is allowed to use to overrule decisions of the government. Since Israel has no Constitution (it has some Basic Laws, but they don't cover much) the Supreme Court has been increasingly intervening into politics - including appointments, government decisions, policies, etc. - much more than, for example, US Supreme Court would ever do, and using reasoning like "it doesn't look reasonable" to overrule the actions of the government. Since, remember, there's no Constitution, this essentially gives the Supreme Court infinite power - they could override literally anything the government does, and they didn't need much grounds for it either.

And, let's say, the Court also hasn't been exactly non-partisan lately either (if it reminds you some other country, then you are right, these things can happen anywhere). So, many people were very unhappy with such situation, where a largely self-perpetuating body (the Court controls a lot of appointment process too) has nearly infinite power over the elected officials.

Given that one major party (or rather coalition, but let's not get into the weeds) has lost the elections, but enjoys the power in the Court, and the other has the majority in the parliament, but has their actions constantly blocked by the Court with motivations like "it doesn't look reasonable to us", the inevitable readjustment happens. It does not mean at all the Court - or any courts - lost all ability to review the decisions of the government, far from it. It just means that use of that particular tool - declaring any decision "unreasonable" and be done with it - has been restricted. Of course the side that enjoyed using that tool doesn't like it at all. But the Court still has all the power of review that it had using any other tools - including all the laws previously passed and those Basic Laws that exist. It just moved from "infinite power" to "limited power".

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