Best case: Maintainers paid, GitHub acquires Polar. Worst case: Maintainers paid, GitHub copies Polar.
Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
121–130 of 139 posts
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#122What's different from the other crowdsourcing platforms for open source?
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
So every time I'm sponsoring someone on Github, Microsoft loses some money? That's even better!
I don't get this comment. I host all my OSS projects on Github so I can have free and unlimited CI. I have access to Github Copilot for free. I use VScode which is arguably a great software all day, every day. All this because Microsoft has a shit ton of money and they can afford funding the OSS community as a whole.
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#124Best case: Maintainers paid, GitHub acquires Polar. Worst case: Maintainers paid, GitHub copies Polar.
Here's my thinking re: GitHub on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36736826
Curious what you think about subscriptions versus one-time payments. Seems like Polar is going more for the latter. Would love if this was normalized and could see it leading to more money coming in overall. My concern is that subscriptions are great for predictability (company sponsors $500/mo) and without that I need to find a way to re-acquire money to pay rent every month.
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#125Won't this just encourage maintainers to sit on issues... just waiting for the bounty to increase? They might even purposefully introduce painful but simple bugs just to push consumers to pay to have them fixed.
Another kind of problem would be when someone pledges a big sum for an obscure feature, a first-time contributor writes a (technically perfect) PR for it. Maintainer does not want to merge it, because the feature does not align with maintainer's project goals. But not merging will now look like a dick move, as it denies the PR author the compensation.
An important distinction between Polar vs. traditional bounty services though and regarding your point is:
Everything goes through the maintainer(s) and we're equipping them with the insights, capital and tools to reward their contributors. While bounty services allow anyone to post a bounty and anyone to pursue it. However, ultimately it needs to be reviewed, merged and maintained indefinitely by the maintainer(s). By ensuring it all flows via maintainer(s) it:
1. Rewards maintainers as well – key given their efforts
2.Guarantees maintainers are aligned & behind pledges first. Combined with in control on how to expose, delegate and reward it. Avoiding unnecessary friction, bad faith and overhead if such alignment is first made during PR.
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#126(Old man rant) For fuck's sake. If I wanted to be a social media influencer, I'd be on Instagram / OnlyFans. If i wanted to spend my time "an entrepreneur with superpowers to convert the community into backers", I would be running a company / start up doing sales. I wish to write code. Some of that code is open source. Some of it I write because someone pays me to do so. I dont have to do any sales and that is fantas…
Intent here is not for each commit across all of OSS to be paid for. Or that every maintainer has to charge for add-on services.
Polar is designed for maintainers who either 1) spend an enormous amount of time in effectively unpaid support already or 2) want tooling to run an independent business around their OSS initiatives.
It’s not designed for everyone and you opt-in to use it (as maintainers, contributors or backers).
To me that’s the core trait of OSS: Freedom. Today, I don’t think maintainers have that freedom to easily pursue an independent business or get paid for support towards businesses without an insane amount of unnecessary overhead. That’s what we aim to change for those who seek it.
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#127I’m glad to see more people tackle the problem of open source funding; at the same time, I’m not convinced that adding VC money to the problem makes things any better. There’s a secret third thing that never seems to get mentioned: not pittances through donations and not speculative investment from VCs, but plain old paid engineering. Most open source maintainers don’t want to be “entrepreneurs”; they just want to be…
I think we both agree this should exist and could be helpful to many maintainers who likely want it and would benefit from it?
So re: VC. I simply wouldn’t be able to afford pursuing this platform without VC backing. Zero chance. It’s going to take a lot of time, people, lawyers, tax professionals, operations to sales and more to do right and world-wide. Not to mention, since it’s an unproven model in an ecosystem without much economic activity, it’s incredibly risky and will take time before it creates such an economy. To me that’s the beauty and hope VC brings. Supporting entirely new models, markets and innovations that take time to build.
I love indie/bootstrapping, but it encourages working with incremental changes within existing & large markets because you need revenue to exist in large scale from Day 1 through which you can mine.
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would be me :-) My name is Birk Jernström (@birk on Twitter). Been coding since I was 10y. Co-founded an e-commerce platform called Tictail back in 2011 which was acquired by Shopify in 2018. Worked there for 3y as Director of Product on the Shop.app team. In hindsight building platforms that empowers creators (one form or another) is what I love to do. As a self-taught developer thanks to open source, I'm incre…
How do you plan to prevent enshittification of your service over time? https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/enshittification for background of this term The reason I'm asking is: I believe VCs increase the risk of enshittification. Incumbents that employed a "pay a bounty for maintainers to fix the issue" model would simply pocket the bounties for issues that never got picked up. Is this a risk for yours too?
I think enshittification is more a consequence of either 1) current metrics not matching costs 2) loss of long-term vision of further innovation (often once it's no longer founder led) 3) no competition.
It's either an attempt to make up for the bleeding short-term (1), unclear path of expansion (2) or an excessive ability to maximize costs due to no alternatives on the market (3).
In many ways, I'd argue VCs decrease the risk of enshittification or delay it. They're comfortable funding the delta between current metrics vs. costs (1) – up to a point, of course. They also love to fund competition in proven markets (3).
> Incumbents [...] would simply pocket the bounties for issues that never got picked up. Is this a risk for yours too?
This is a combination of the problem not having been solved at scale and of such actors needing cash (1). At Polar now, we have runway for years even without $1 in revenue – thanks to VCs.
Of course, I understand what you mean and ultimately the problem in our industry arises when "the party stops". At some point current metrics & costs need to balance. However, I'd argue this is the responsibility of the founders. VCs will always be the voice of "invest in growth" because it's fundamentally what their capital is for. Founders need to know how to leverage it, track current metrics and obsess about how things are progressing to match up eventually and spend + invest accordingly. Combined with having a long-term mission & vision spanning beyond quarterly goals. Enshittification is duck tape for lacking these things and ultimately fuel for competition.
So to answer your question, I believe I'm to be held accountable and not VCs in case we enshittify the product. Having worked at Shopify, I'm inspired by their 100-year mission and being founder+product led and obsessed about merchants – knowing money comes as a reward and is not the pursuit. Having also started a company before, I've learned to "not get drunk" by the party.
We're building towards something new in the pursuit of creating an independent pathway towards careers and small businesses within OSS for those who want to pursue it. It will take time and it will cost a lot of money to make this bet. It would have been impossible without VCs and I've chosen really great ones who align with this mission. I'm beyond thankful for them making this possible because that's what it boils down to.
Finally, we're open source so you can hold us accountable :-) https://github.com/polarsource/polar
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#129Interesting idea, A small but impactful change I would make would be to change dollar amounts into tokens. e.g. 1 token = $50. A company might want to buy 1000 tokens and allocate tokens individually to specific issues, but they also might want to put tokens in a pot the maintainer can access to "spend" on issues they want to prioritise for the project or allow them to "spend" tokens at a specific rate, etc. It also…
> It also means that money is committed upfront by the companies, i.e. the money is real and exists, has been set aside for this thing and in case of a dispute polar can make decisions, etc
Glad to say, that's how it works already. A pledge is paid upfront and the capital resides within the Polar platform account with Stripe until the issue is marked completed. Then it's transferred to the maintainer minus fees (10%). Or refunded to the backer after 6 months (a timeframe we'll experiment with). We're going to build a "Polar balance" so individuals or companies can top-up their account, automatically disperse it etc too.
So the only question is whether it needs to be abstracted into a "token" concept or can simply continue to be $ upfront. Definitely some advantages and opportunities with "token" vs. money though. Just a bit mindful of the associations people have with "token" specifically from the crypto world.
> they also might want to put tokens in a pot the maintainer can access to "spend" on issues they want to prioritise for the project or allow them to "spend" tokens at a specific rate
Love this! https://github.com/orgs/polarsource/discussions/858
Re: Polar v1.0: Let’s Fix Open Source Funding
#130I think I prefer StackAid, it funds the entire chain of dependencies and doesn't lock anything down: https://www.stackaid.us/