I must say I get rather irritated when people spend time worrying about dubious 'tweaker' methods to improve their audio, when the most under-performing component of most people's sound equipment also has the lowest-hanging fruit: The room itself. When people ask me where they should spend money to improve the quality of their hi-fi or home theater system, in nearly every case my response will be something like "get…
I'd disagree, at least among the people I know: they all have cheap HTIB systems and the single biggest, most cost-effective improvement you can make from there is to buy better speakers. Then you can worry about your room.
There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
121–130 of 326 posts
Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
The linked article was accurate. You are confused. "I'm an ex-audio engineer" Hard to believe. "The distinct sound of the triangle constitutes of a high fundamental frequency, ballpark 10kHz" That's a pretty high note - higher than the top key on the piano. But an "audio engineer" would know that. "many very high-pitch harmonics" Since the next harmonic after the fundamental would be at 20khz, which only young people…
Playing Devil's Advocate... The statement that frequencies above 20kHz don't matter rests upon the assumption that the ear is linear. If the ear is not linear (I don't know whether it is not not) then frequencies above 20kHz will matter, as the ear will be able to mix higher frequencies down to less than 20kHz. For example, if we have frequencies of 56kHz and 59kHz, the ear MIGHT be able to discern a difference frequ…
> the speakers will be the limiting factor
> in most sound systems
I disagree -- in most sound systems, the room is generally the most limiting factor.Pardon the reductio ad absurdum, but would you prefer to listen to $1,000 speakers in a dry, padded listening room, or to $100,000 speakers in a tile bathroom? Obviously the room matters; I think most people underestimate by how much.
Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are two reasons I don't think this will happen: 1. People would use the tracks to create custom remixes which they would then distribute. What happens when a remix becomes more popular than the original track? Artists generally have to pay other artists to remix their songs (usually via royalties). 2. Creativity. When an artist creates something they want you to hear it the way it was intended. Allowing you to…
Regarding remixing. Artists usually don't "pay" each other, but return the favor - if it's the right term to say. E.g. artist A remixes a song of artist B and artist B in turn does the same for artist A. Or if they are all on the same record label artist A does a remix for artist B and later B makes a collaboration with A. I've noticed this in electronica/edm music artists at least. And another important remark: some…
I write music and have considered releasing separate tracks so people can freely remix it but I prefer just having mixes that are controlled by me. Allowing another artist you know to remix your track still allows you some sort of control (you know their style so have some idea of how the remix will go). Giving up that control is a big step and, I think, an unnecessary one.
Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#124What I would love to have is: independent instrument/vocals tracks along with a default recommended "mix". The default mix would be used for normal playback and independent tracks would be great for custom mix / karaoke etc. Is this too unrealistic to expect? Has something like this been tried before?
Trent Reznor / Nine Inch Nails has done it several times: http://www.ninremixes.com/multitracks.php Plenty of other artists have as well, but this is the most high profile example I can think of. I agree it would be great if it happened more often.
The beatles multi-tracks are also available (although they were only recorded 4-track so not every instrument always has it's own track), and there has been a handful of artists who have released their samples of one song for remix competitions (Daft Punk, Royksopp, Booka Shade).
Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article doesn't suggest only using 48kHz for recording and mixing. I don't think the author would disagree that recording triangles is difficult. He would argue that once you've decided what final audible frequencies you want to present to the listener, the best way to distribute them is at 16-bit 44.1/48kHz. It's a compelling case.
What if you want to sample the song later? That's one thing I find concerning with the move to digital. With analog media, you can go back, re-record and get an improved result (provided the source is good) but District 9 (which was shot on Red One) will never have improved quality other than resampling because the source is set to a particular digital format with associated data quality.
"[...] provided the source is good" is begging the question; it's no different from saying "District 9 could be better if they hadn't recorded in 4k (or whatever the Red One was using) and downsampled it for my DVD" The nature of the source is irrelevant, barring the fact that film might provide a higher resolution, if film scanning technology increases, and you can afford to both capture on film, process and store your film properly (archiving film is rather difficult, I believe), and get the best quality digitisation possible.
Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#126I must say I get rather irritated when people spend time worrying about dubious 'tweaker' methods to improve their audio, when the most under-performing component of most people's sound equipment also has the lowest-hanging fruit: The room itself. When people ask me where they should spend money to improve the quality of their hi-fi or home theater system, in nearly every case my response will be something like "get…
Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#127I must say I get rather irritated when people spend time worrying about dubious 'tweaker' methods to improve their audio, when the most under-performing component of most people's sound equipment also has the lowest-hanging fruit: The room itself. When people ask me where they should spend money to improve the quality of their hi-fi or home theater system, in nearly every case my response will be something like "get…
Agree one-hundred percent about the room (although the prescription isn't always as simple as "get a thicker rug" etc). The other issue regarding high-frequency sound reproduction is that in most cases, the loudspeaker won't be outputting much beyond 22-25 kHz (assuming very good quality loudspeakers, cheap consumer grade units might struggle to hit a -6 dB point at 18 kHz) and even for the speakers that have usable…
Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#128I must say I get rather irritated when people spend time worrying about dubious 'tweaker' methods to improve their audio, when the most under-performing component of most people's sound equipment also has the lowest-hanging fruit: The room itself. When people ask me where they should spend money to improve the quality of their hi-fi or home theater system, in nearly every case my response will be something like "get…
Agree one-hundred percent about the room (although the prescription isn't always as simple as "get a thicker rug" etc). The other issue regarding high-frequency sound reproduction is that in most cases, the loudspeaker won't be outputting much beyond 22-25 kHz (assuming very good quality loudspeakers, cheap consumer grade units might struggle to hit a -6 dB point at 18 kHz) and even for the speakers that have usable…
> Agree one-hundred percent about the room
With a username like yours, I'm not surprised. :-) > although the prescription isn't always as
> simple as "get a thicker rug" etc
A prescription is only as good as the likelihood that it will be heeded by the patient. A rug is an easy win; acoustic ceiling tiles and bass traps are a bit harder...Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stripping frequencies above 20kHz negates the effect on the lower frequencies since those lower frequencies are not "modified" by the higher ones. The human hear can actually hear the very high harmonics when they're combined with a lower fundamental frequency. For example, the human hear will hear a 30kHz frequency if it's fundamental is 10kHz. If it's played at 44.1kHz, the 30kHz frequency is gone and all you'll he…
For example, the human hear will hear a 30kHz frequency if it's fundamental is 10kHz You are going to have to provide me with a citation to back that up because that goes against everything I've learned and experience in 17 years of working in acoustics.
Basically, if you produce two ultrasonic frequencies, they will create an interference pattern at a much lower frequency than either of the individual frequencies. Modulate a signal on the difference between two signals, and you can create a directional speaker, since ultrasonic sounds tend to be highly directional (so long as the diameter of the transducer is greater than 1/2 wavelength, which is almost guaranteed with ultrasonic signals). This is how the "sound cannons" that are being deployed for crowd control work.
Re: There is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format.
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a very good example, because that's a Crotale (A Flat, ~4" cymbal, basically), not a triangle.
Wow! I didn't know that! All these years I was convinced it was a triangle just like pretty much everybody I guess. Thanks :)