Surprised that nobody here mentioned community colleges yet. Not a silver bullet, but the total cost of someone commuting to a community college from home is an order of magnitude cheaper than going to college. In many cases, CCs have explicit transfer programs, and the chances of transferring to a decent university after year two are pretty high.
Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
121–130 of 771 posts
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#122Can confirm. Currently attending a mid-tier public state school, and I'm looking at ~1200/mo (2000/mo, including housing - living w/ 3 roommates) out of pocket (since I'm trying to avoid taking out loans as much as possible). I've worked up to 2 jobs at the same time just to keep making ends meet. It's really rough out there, and my degree program doesn't even begin to cover fundamental CS concepts like P/NP-completeness, DFAs, etc. Waste of money IMHO.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it is 'free', then why are students in debt and liable for it? (and don't confuse the issue with current debt relief bill. The current bill has not been in effect since 1983, it is trying to give relief for this situation, not causing it).
It's free for universities who can rest easy knowing that if students don't pay then it doesn't affect them.
Ah, free in the sense that the University got its money and can now ignore any consequences?
It is NOT free to the student who is definitely affected. They are in debt and now crippled. But the university got it's money.
If you want to blame the government. Why is it the governments fault that Universities are now behaving like scammers and charging more for less and leaving the 'customer' stuck.
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Lets say I go to a used car salesman, and they want to cheat me.
Lets say (before 1983) I would pay 2000$ for the car, but I'm scammed and out 2000$. I lost 2000$
Lets say figuratively now it is (2020), and I can't afford the car, so a rich uncle co-signs, and give me 30,000$.
I still get cheated, but now I'm out more money, AND now I'm in debt to my uncle (who lets say wants some 'payment' I feel uncomfortable performing).
The used car salesman is a cheat either way, for lesser money or more money, and either way they got my money.
And I'm in debt and blowing my uncle until it is paid off.
In the end, I (the student) am stuck. Is it my uncles fault? Is it the crooked salesman? Maybe my uncle didn't know the salesman was a cheat either (but like a bank, does want something in return)? Should I know the salesman was a cheat? Maybe I'm young and just starting out in life and not sure about the warning signs? Should we allow the young and in-experienced to be exploited?
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, what? That is a misleading read of that page. Only if you have parents/guardians that can get a PLUS loan is that the limit. You have to look at the other column for everyone else. And that is the principal. With a short limit on how much of that can be subsidized, meaning the rest is accruing interest from day 1. Such that they amount you would owe will be laughably higher than even that number after your scho…
how is it misleading? most undergrads are considered dependent, which means they can only borrow $31k in total over 4 years. beyond that they would need to tap alternative sources.
I'm interested in numbers backing up that claim? But, even with that, student debt is almost certainly including PLUS loans which, "The maximum PLUS loan amount you can receive is the cost of attendance (determined by the school) minus any other financial aid received." So... yeah, very misleading read of that page.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#125You have to look at net price not sticker price. faulty analysis. better data here https://usafacts.org/articles/college-tuition-has-increased-...
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#126It is free money for lenders because backed by the Govt AND protected against bankruptcy. It is Free money for colleges because they know they will get paid regardless. Remove this "free money guarantee" and watch how market corrects itself. When students can file for bankruptcy and/or the debt is not guaranteed by Govt, lenders would now use the same criteria they use to issue credit cards to 18 year olds. Hint: It'…
This isn't going to happen because the whole point of the current government back student loan program is to give kids from not-ideal backgrounds access to credit, and hence access to the full range of schools available.
There is currently a shortage of people for the military, so let them join that for the education. Can pay for their schooling with service.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Common sense? Government (taxpayers) underwrite unlimited amounts to uninformed buyers paying informed sellers. I am a seller (college boss), and I can boost my own income, and I know I have no competitive pressure to keep prices down, so why not increase the college budget and spending, hence justifying tuition increases.
Common sense is often wrong. I haven't found any reliable source yet that even mentions the availability government loans as being a driving factor. Based on the limited research I've done over the last few minutes, the main drivers appear to be: 1. A large increase in demand for College. I could imagine this may be, in part, due to more accessible student loans. But it appears that many factors have come into play,…
3 is a side effect, not a primary effect.
In 1 you're talking about a self-reinforcing effect. "I have to put on makeup to look pretty because everyone puts on makeup to look pretty". When everyone believes it, it becomes true.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is wrong. You’re mixing up subsidized loans with the ability to get loans. People can get unsubsidized loans that still come with the same constraints around inability to discharge in bankruptcy for vastly more money. It’s essentially all unsecured student loans (i.e. effectively the entire student loan market) that have this risk free model for lenders. It would all be completely toxic trash otherwise that no l…
No its not Literally says "Subsidized and Unsubsidized Aggregate Loan Limit $31,000-No more than $23,000 of this amount may be in subsidized loan" Just confirms most people have no clue how small the limits actually are.
I am afraid you are woefully confused. A good friend had $150k in debt from undergrad and $200k in additional debt from law school, and this was 10 years ago.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
This for federal loans. But the government has "protected" all loans - private education loans are also unable to be discharged by bankruptcy, for example.
yeah, and we're talking about federal loans here. the government is not on the hook if a student defaults on a private loan. the critique was that tax payers were somehow on the hook for most undergraduate costs when $31k over 4 years barely pays for rent at this point.
No, this is incorrect. The federal government is also the backstop for a majority of private student loans as well. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08121...
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#130Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…
It's unfortunate, but to me this feels like half of the root of the problem. One half is easy access to loans, the other half is student debt relief programs. Between the two, colleges know they can charge absurd prices and pocket the money. It's awful, and I wish someone was doing something to stop this. It cannot go like this forever.
I think the solution is to just grant some money to schools and cap tuition costs. The current incentives are just so misaligned.
Its only half the problem because you'll still see inflated housing as well but at least its something.