Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#121

Post by tfourb » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 7:46 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47

tfourb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the kinda rural area I grew up in it was common for Italian restaurants to have their own delivery drivers. Many still do, because the customer experience of the delivery apps is often inferior. If we go back to a pre-food delivery app time, my general take would be "and nothing of value was lost." Restaurants will still be able to have their own delivery services, people will still be able to simply pick up…

> Getting your Hamburger from that special place across town (lukewarm) is nice, but it won't kill you if its not possible anymore It might kill that special place across town, or at least cause it to reduce hours.

If their existence is predicated on the exploitation of gig workers they should go under. The general demand for food won't be impacted by that one bit. Either people will be willing to pay more for their fancy burger or demand will shift to other businesses that can afford to pay their people a living wage.

EDITED TO ADD: Something that isn't often mentioned in these discussions is that the existence of businesses predicated on exploiting labour is narrowing the space for businesses that would be willing and able to compensate their workers fairly. Delivery apps are pricing out sustainable business models if they are allowed to skirt labour regulations, just like the common practice of Amazon and other companies treating delivery drivers as independent contractors.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#122

Post by tfourb » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 7:49 AM UTC

WeylandYutani wrote: post #77

tfourb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the kinda rural area I grew up in it was common for Italian restaurants to have their own delivery drivers. Many still do, because the customer experience of the delivery apps is often inferior. If we go back to a pre-food delivery app time, my general take would be "and nothing of value was lost." Restaurants will still be able to have their own delivery services, people will still be able to simply pick up…

But we don't go back because millions of customers use these apps every day. Just not HN apparently because people here are special.

The OP was talking about uber eats and similar apps potentially shutting down in New York if delivery drivers have to be paid minimum wage. None of these apps currently have a sustainable business model if they have to treat their drivers as employees under the laws of the local jurisdiction. Maybe they will adjust their business model if forced to comply with the law. Or they will shut down. Either way is fine with me.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#123

Post by habosa » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 11:12 AM UTC

senttoschool wrote: post #51

habosa wrote: post #31

To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. But … I don’t think the cities are properly accounting for the ease of using multiple apps? If a driver is logged into Uber and Doordash and GrubHub on 3 phones waiting for a delivery they probably should not be accruing $17.96*3 per hour at that time. But it…

> To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. Funny I have the exact opposite opinion. I think it's good for all parties involved. Restaurants get a bigger market. Delivery people get more freedom at work. Eaters get convenience. Delivery apps get a piece of the revenue for efficiently routing drivers a…

The parties involved:

- Drivers: clearly unhappy with their pay at least in NYC and other major markets.

- Restaurants: have been quite vocal about how they are in a lose-lose situation because they can’t afford to not participate but also have to give a massive cut to Uber.

- Customers: probably the happiest group but in general there’s a rising tide of complaints about the massive fees.

- Uber/Doordash: losing money despite everyone else thinking they’re taking absurdly high cuts.

The entire model is unsustainable if everyone thinks their cut is too low. Regulation will probably fix it for one or two parties which will cause the others to opt out.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#124

Post by senttoschool » Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 11:52 AM UTC

habosa wrote: post #123

senttoschool wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. Funny I have the exact opposite opinion. I think it's good for all parties involved. Restaurants get a bigger market. Delivery people get more freedom at work. Eaters get convenience. Delivery apps get a piece of the revenue for efficiently routing drivers a…

The parties involved: - Drivers: clearly unhappy with their pay at least in NYC and other major markets. - Restaurants: have been quite vocal about how they are in a lose-lose situation because they can’t afford to not participate but also have to give a massive cut to Uber. - Customers: probably the happiest group but in general there’s a rising tide of complaints about the massive fees. - Uber/Doordash: losing mone…

You can say the same with any business. No party is truly ever happy in business. Everyone wants more. Everyone has greed.

But people are still ordering. Drivers are still driving. Restaurants are still on the apps.

So clearly, some people still find value in all of this.