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Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

movingthelimit.com

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Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#121
post #43

A large portion of the student body at every American college is "drowning themselves in pleasure and mindlessness". The simple, naturalistic explanation is that when Harvard students abandon themselves to partying and procrastination, it is for the same reason that students at Boston University or Colorado State do it: i.e., they're young, horny, and on the loose for the first time in life, and their mental circuitr…

Exactly this. There is no need for overthinking things, like in the article. When I was in college I noticed one group who managed well above all the others. They where in their 30s.

My now-deceased mother earned her bachelors [UTSA] in her early-50's, and always commented how "few of my classmates attend office hours and even fewer seem to care about what we're learning."

Lady: they're just trying to survive while all these intoxicating chemicals [hormones, drugs, rage] pollute their very existences.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#122

One reason I haven't heard yet is that the work gets harder. Before I went to Oxford, I'd never run into anything mathy that I couldn't understand. I don't mean that I got it right the first time, though that tended to happen, but in high school I either just got it with no problem, or I understood the answer when I saw the explanation. This goes for both math/science class itself and math contests that I enjoyed doi…

>One reason I haven't heard yet is that the work gets harder.

This happened to me after breezing through a Top 100 US high school [sober] and then sleeping through most of my Top 20 US private undergrad [full scholarship, not sober]. Graduate school...

>This can be a shock. People react in different ways, and one reaction is to not try.

I left medical school in awe of money never being able to compensate for the sacrifices made matriculating into [let alone completing] such rigorous studies. Had fun, was shocked, fifteen years later I still read a lot...

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#123
post #37

Unpopular opinion: as an overachiever doing mundane things like watching reality TV and smoking weed with friends led to more personal growth and self acceptance than any form of additional study. just sitting with friends talking about life in a relaxed setting and practicing creating connections stress free really helped me improve my soft skills (and dumb TV shows to have stuff to discuss). Of course the minute it…

You should NOT attempt addition while smoking weed.

2 + 2 /= 4

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#124

Some are born with goals, some find their own goals, and some have goals thrust upon them. Being a smart kid can be hard. Parents, teachers and peers see that mythical attribute "potential" and push you in directions to reach it. Get A's in school? Gotta be a doctor or lawyer. (OK, that ages me, today they'd be pushing for programmer.) Graduating college with a degree you never wanted must be depressing for the perso…

> Gotta be a doctor or lawyer ... today they'd be pushing for programmer. Where are you getting that from? Parents and teachers still push for doctor or lawyer for smart kids. Only if doctor or lawyer is unattainable would they suggest programmer. Furthermore, everybody still perceives doctors and lawyers to have higher status than programmers. Just look at TV shows from the 80s vs recent years: The high prestige cha…

Doctors get 200k minimum in almost any community which is why the profession is coveted. You basically never see a poor doctor in the USA. This is because of intense regulation of residency spots.

Honestly, if you are a smart American kid who likes research get an MD and/or an MD/PhD. That way you aren't competing with the foreign grad student labor pool. The MD is the golden ticket. Of course if you hate medicine it isn't.

Lawyers are more variable and a lot of the work is rote contracts.

Programming is more of the wild west since you can practice without a license as they say.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#125

> One of my friends would always say (after poor grades or job rejections) "I wasn't even trying." By his logic, if he didn't try, then he didn't really fail, because the true extent of his abilities remained untested. He would often play videos games rather than study, just so he could have a plausible excuse for failure. It would be an existential threat for him to do his absolute best but come up short. I knew som…

You must be extremely intelligent to keep us with all the bullshit/lies.

Even then...

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#126

One reason I haven't heard yet is that the work gets harder. Before I went to Oxford, I'd never run into anything mathy that I couldn't understand. I don't mean that I got it right the first time, though that tended to happen, but in high school I either just got it with no problem, or I understood the answer when I saw the explanation. This goes for both math/science class itself and math contests that I enjoyed doi…

This happened to me whereby HS required zero studying but uni absolutely did. I took a year out and did sh!t jobs realizing if I didn't graduate then this was what waited. Then when I started uni and realized it was hard. Very Hard. I realized I'd need to study hard or end up in said sh!t jobs. I'd never been more motivated in my life. Uni to me wasn't about finding myself and overindulgence in nonsense concepts like rite of passage. It was about getting a bloody academic degree.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#127

Some are born with goals, some find their own goals, and some have goals thrust upon them. Being a smart kid can be hard. Parents, teachers and peers see that mythical attribute "potential" and push you in directions to reach it. Get A's in school? Gotta be a doctor or lawyer. (OK, that ages me, today they'd be pushing for programmer.) Graduating college with a degree you never wanted must be depressing for the perso…

> Ivy league students don't get there by themselves. A life-time of adults help you. See, this is what I do not get. I got without excessive effort into a top university in Europe. I never had to be taken care nearly this much. Learned calculus at 14-15 by buying an old book in a used book store. Learned programming at around the same age by reading C++ tutorials and doing programming competitions (ACM style, but eas…

> I believe I would be admitted to an Ivy school if I were American, based on my professional experience with people that studied there.

They do take exceptional students from poorer backgrounds in many cases. But the biggest qualification for Ivy League places is your prestige and how rich you are. They want Names and old money to be admitted and try to keep the riff-raff out as much as possible. They accept poor but extraordinary students because they can becomes Names in the future to enhance the reputation of the establishment. Don't ever believe it's anything to do with you personally.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You honestly believe that people who get into Harvard don't have more self-discipline on average that those who don't?

It’s my understanding that a lot of people who could make the cut for Harvard etc but do not due to resource constraints (limited student numbers, limited finances). These people then go on to other universities. So yes I believe you’ll find all levels of self-discipline across all the universities.

The difference is there are some 3000 universities in the US. I guarantee you, the vast majority of students who could make the cut at Harvard are not attending a college ranked at 1500. So when you compare an average student at Harvard, maybe there's no significant difference between that student and students at the top 100 (or pick a number, 100 seems high frankly, I've studied in universities ranked around 20, 50, 100 and the differences in the average student and course difficulty was quite big between the 20 and 100) ranked universities, but there's certainly a difference between that student and the average college student.
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