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Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

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Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#121

Post by fsflover »

lockhouse wrote: post #119
kibwen wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment makes it sound like Apple shouldn't be forced to open up their hardware, but the better conclusion is that game consoles should be forced to open up their hardware. This is (allegedly) Hacker News, we should be all for giving people more control over the devices they (allegedly) own.

Just don’t buy closed devices if that’s what you want. There’s no shortage of open devices available to buy. Complaining about iPhones and game consoles being closed is like complaining that your Honda Civic isn’t good at off-roading and won’t tow your horse trailer.

Which open consoles can I buy nowadays?

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#122

Post by evandale »

vkou wrote: post #112
scrps wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point where you don't go down the slope is when you recognize it and you don't know what is at the end of it's long tail. The guidance is built in.

" We can't have police , this will lead to a slippery slope that will lead to a 1984 police state." " We can't not have police , this will lead to a slippery slope that will lead to Mad Max anarchy and roaming bands of killers and warlords riding in really awesome-looking semis." That's the entire problem with the slippery slope! Two entirely conflicting, equally compelling arguments can be construed with it, startin…

> Just because the bottom of a slippery slope looks awful, or can't be seen isn't a reason to do, or not do something - because I can construct a million awful slippery slopes for any action you do, or not do.

Who said anything about using a slippery slope for the _only_ justification to do or not do anything?

You said "Slippery slope arguments provide exactly zero guidance for as to when it is reasonable to stop going down the slope, which is what makes them utterly useless" and I disagree that they're utterly useless. Sure, it doesn't provide guidance. Why does it need to? As you go down the slippery slope you learn about the possibilities you should consider. You also learn about the possibilities you can ignore. It's a risk assessment tool and it's incredibly useful.

I'm not sure how you can deny that putting all the chips on the table, thinking about, and debating all the possibilities has no benefit when you're assessing an idea or an action to take. There's nothing wrong with _considering_ possibilities and going down the slippery slope. It's often a very useful exercise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Thinking_Hats

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#123

Post by max_ »

threeseed wrote: post #95
max_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always give people an effective way to sideload applications.

Which will unravel the App Store. Because the benefits of side loading on iOS are so massive that everyone will use it i.e. you can use private APIs, bypass Apple's privacy controls, implement device tracking, harvest data e.g. contacts. It's going to be a huge transfer of power and wealth back to the likes of Meta, Epic etc

Why can't people just build an OS that can't be abused then.

Just make sure people ask for permission. Before giving them access to something?

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#124

Post by lockhouse »

fsflover wrote: post #121
lockhouse wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don’t buy closed devices if that’s what you want. There’s no shortage of open devices available to buy. Complaining about iPhones and game consoles being closed is like complaining that your Honda Civic isn’t good at off-roading and won’t tow your horse trailer.

Which open consoles can I buy nowadays?

Buy a PC.

There is also dev mode on Xbox One and later consoles:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/xbox-dev-mode/9nljhzjrn0f4...

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#125

Post by lockhouse »

max_ wrote: post #47
rcoder wrote: post #42

Choose one: 1. Full-on libre: speech, financial flows, technical architecture, etc. (i.e., basically the entire raison d'être for Nostr) -or- 2. Live and work inside the walled garden of Apple + Google's app stores You really can't have it both ways.

You can always give people an effective way to sideload applications.

To borrow a popular phrase:

Don’t Android my iPhone.

I left Android for an iPhone for a reason.

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#126

Post by [deleted] »

enragedcacti wrote: post #6
cjpearson wrote: post #2

It's hard to see this appeal going anywhere. The app store guidelines even explicitly mention this use case as one that requires in-app purchases to be used. > Apps may use in-app purchase currencies to enable customers to “tip” the developer or digital content providers in the app. Apple lists the limited scenarios where alternative purchase methods can be used and this one is not included. Since they mention it in…

I don't think the section you quote tells the whole story > If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. > Apps may use in-app purchase currencies to enable customers to “tip” the developer or digital content providers in the app. Using "must" f…

[deleted]

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#127

Post by evandale »

joshstrange wrote: post #98
PretzelPirate wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a thing some people seem to be unable to understand, and it's that... coming after bad things can be good, actually. Going after bad things can be good, but going after a developer who wants to be tipped in crypto isn't a bad thing. Apple being able to take down an app because it allows the user to monetarily reward a developer in the way the dev chooses *is* a bad thing.

> allows the user to monetarily reward a developer in the way the dev chooses is a bad thing I honestly don't believe anyone can argue this in good faith. First off it's not user->developer but user->user and second "the way the dev [or user] chooses" is just silly. At the end of the day people want fiat currencies, Bitcoin (or any other crypto) in this case is clearly meant as a way to bypass the app store cut. It's…

> We can argue about if Apple/Google deserve 30% but pretending people actually want crypto for any reason other than avoid rules/regulations is silly.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36405348

> I have a PornHub subscription that uses bitcoin. There's nothing speculative about it and it's completely legitimate. I've also used to to purchase indie games instead of giving Steam/Google/Apple/Epic a cut. I'm looking for a Spotify alternative and this seems to fit the bill and I'd give OP some bitcoin to check it out.

> Just because viable usecases don't exist today isn't proof that they'll never exist and isn't a reason to stop development. If we gave up on hard problems because we didn't solve them in 15 years we wouldn't have the AI we have today.

Can you please explain to me how my use of crypto is avoiding rules/regulations? I don't wish to be silly or have pretend intentions.

Is there a rule that says all developers have to put their games on Steam or Epic and accept local currency that I'm trying to avoid? Is there a rule that says developers can't sell their games for apples? What rules/regulations would a developer avoid by accepting apples as payment for their work?

Now extend this to people who are creating videos and want to create their an iOS app that will allow them to accept apples as payment. What makes crypto special?

Apple's 30% cut is not a real rule, I'm sorry. It doesn't bring any good in the world and it doesn't help anybody except Apple. Apple and Apple's supporters care about the rule but that doesn't make it a valid rule or something the rest of us have to sit back and accept. Using crypto to avoid Apple's fees isn't hurting anybody except the poor old multi-trillion dollar company named Apple. If you want to talk about people pretending let's talk about how many people pretend like Apple is a good guy or how people pretend like Apple cares about them on an individual level. It's as delusional as walking into a strip club and walking out thinking the stripper you paid $300 for a lap dance for loves you and wants to see you again because they care about you on an individual level.

It's also fully within someone's rights to put their foot down and fight Apple on this. There's nothing wrong with that and the US legal system allows for it. You can be a bully and tell people to pick up their ball and go somewhere else when they're in "your park" but one day someone is gonna punch you in the mouth and tell you to sod off when they see you let everyone else play there with different rules. Apple is going to lose their 30% cut in the very near future, they know it, and they're terrified.

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#128

Post by enragedcacti »

enragedcacti wrote: post #6
cjpearson wrote: post #2

It's hard to see this appeal going anywhere. The app store guidelines even explicitly mention this use case as one that requires in-app purchases to be used. > Apps may use in-app purchase currencies to enable customers to “tip” the developer or digital content providers in the app. Apple lists the limited scenarios where alternative purchase methods can be used and this one is not included. Since they mention it in…

I don't think the section you quote tells the whole story > If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. > Apps may use in-app purchase currencies to enable customers to “tip” the developer or digital content providers in the app. Using "must" f…

I'm outside of the edit window on this comment otherwise I would make this more prominent, but way below in the "Other" section they do actually have a "monetary gift" rule that aligns with what the dev says:

> (vii) Apps may enable individual users to give a monetary gift to another individual without using in-app purchase, provided that (a) the gift is a completely optional choice by the giver, and (b) 100% of the funds go to the receiver of the gift. However, a gift that is connected to or associated at any point in time with receiving digital content or services must use in-app purchase.

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#129

Post by enragedcacti »

danpalmer wrote: post #4
cjpearson wrote: post #2

It's hard to see this appeal going anywhere. The app store guidelines even explicitly mention this use case as one that requires in-app purchases to be used. > Apps may use in-app purchase currencies to enable customers to “tip” the developer or digital content providers in the app. Apple lists the limited scenarios where alternative purchase methods can be used and this one is not included. Since they mention it in…

Yeah this case seems incredibly obvious, and I feel like any suggestion from the developer that they aren't violating the policies is disingenuous. Whether the policy is a good one or not is a fair question, but not one that App Store review will (or even can) answer, and trying to do anything there is barking up the wrong tree. The right place to challenge this sort of thing is likely with organisations like the FTC…

The actual policy at issue is tucked away in the "Other Business Model Issues" section and uses the term "monetary gift" instead of tip:

> (vii) Apps may enable individual users to give a monetary gift to another individual without using in-app purchase, provided that (a) the gift is a completely optional choice by the giver, and (b) 100% of the funds go to the receiver of the gift. However, a gift that is connected to or associated at any point in time with receiving digital content or services must use in-app purchase.

Re: Apple to Remove Nostr Damus from App Store for Bitcoin Tipping Feature

#130

Post by dwild »

Pulcinella wrote: post #46
rcoder wrote: post #42

Choose one: 1. Full-on libre: speech, financial flows, technical architecture, etc. (i.e., basically the entire raison d'être for Nostr) -or- 2. Live and work inside the walled garden of Apple + Google's app stores You really can't have it both ways.

I’m happy with the one that doesn’t allow crypto crap. Also free speech is a practical impossibility. Standard email is a free as it gets and it turns out nobody wants that because if you have completely free speech your inbox gets spammed into oblivion. Everyone draws the line somewhere.

> if you have completely free speech your inbox gets spammed into oblivion.

Don't know for your provider, but on Gmail, I click on Spam and there are all there. It's not censorship, it's sorting. I usually go see them once a month, just in case something got badly sorted (it's also quite entertaining to see the scams attempts).

In what world is it censorship to choose to read something or not too? It may be censorship for sure that something is blocked (and still can be argued upon), but choosing not to read crap is not censorship, just like choosing not to read every scientific papers in the world is not censorship…

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