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Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

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Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#121

Post by noodle »

randomdata wrote: post #113
bgro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reddit has some of the worst mods I’ve ever seen in any capacity. And they’re frequently in control of massive subreddits. I remember when hate speech was just discovered as a reason to ban people, and mods of major subreddits would find ways to use that either out of protest or complete incompetence to ban people. For example, banning users for disagreeing with a controversial decision because “I hate your take, thu…

Makes sense, though. There isn't much incentive to be a mod on a massive subreddit. The users don't care about you. Reddit doesn't care about you. About all you get in return is some laughs when you strike the ban hammer, which doesn't incentivize good faith moderating.

There's a lot more intangible incentives than you'd think. For example, general clout, influence peddling, an outlet for low power people to experience power, etc.. Many people don't care about those types of incentives, but there are some who do.

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#122

Post by jq-r »

chris_wot wrote: post #80
bgro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reddit has some of the worst mods I’ve ever seen in any capacity. And they’re frequently in control of massive subreddits. I remember when hate speech was just discovered as a reason to ban people, and mods of major subreddits would find ways to use that either out of protest or complete incompetence to ban people. For example, banning users for disagreeing with a controversial decision because “I hate your take, thu…

The r/Australia mods are awful

I bet a lot of r/SomeCountry subreddits are cesspits of bad moderation and/or nationalism and other *isms.

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#123

Post by gandalfgreybeer »

lusus_naturae wrote: post #119

Why can't mods be completely replaced by AI or bots? I wonder if a GPT-enabled AI mod would be better at serving mods functions. At the very least, it makes sense for the Reddit suits to try. Community subreddits are better off as cozy internet forums anyways, they don't need Reddit and vice versa.

I’m a moderator of a fairly good sized sub (3M) and bots help flag things early but sometimes it takes nuance to determine if it’s something that needs action, especially if it’s for a very specific community.

There are rules that have been set up through time by mods that facilitate discussion and avoid people karma farming.

Lastly, there are also communities (one of them ours) that host AMAs or other community events and it’s us who approach people to see if they want to interact with the community.

I’m not saying mods are perfect (I myself am annoyed at ones from other subreddits and sometimes disagree with fellow ones) but mods aren’t there just to ban people and remove posts.

What makes HN amazing for me is how people hear moderate discussions and that’s one thing I’m trying to emulate.

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#124

Post by randomdata »

noodle wrote: post #121
randomdata wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes sense, though. There isn't much incentive to be a mod on a massive subreddit. The users don't care about you. Reddit doesn't care about you. About all you get in return is some laughs when you strike the ban hammer, which doesn't incentivize good faith moderating.

There's a lot more intangible incentives than you'd think. For example, general clout, influence peddling, an outlet for low power people to experience power, etc.. Many people don't care about those types of incentives, but there are some who do.

> For example, general clout, influence peddling, an outlet for low power people to experience power, etc.

Does that meaningfully differ from "some laughs when you strike the ban hammer"? One may not physically laugh out loud, but no doubt the appeal of which you speak stems from pleasurable emotions that stem from the entertainment in experiencing those things.

It is understandable why some people would be drawn to those incentives, but I am not sure those incentives align with good faith participation. Power and influence is best experienced when used in bad faith. When only used in good faith, one will not even recognize that they have it.

In the old owner/operator forum days there were other incentives to be a good faith mod. Financial gain being one possible incentive. But in the case of Reddit, they take all of those parts for themselves, leaving just the scraps for any would-be mods. As such, the earlier "reddit has some of the worst mods I’ve ever seen in any capacity" assertion is not surprising. There is nothing to attract "good" mods.

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#125

Post by randomdata »

starttoaster wrote: post #106
bgro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reddit has some of the worst mods I’ve ever seen in any capacity. And they’re frequently in control of massive subreddits. I remember when hate speech was just discovered as a reason to ban people, and mods of major subreddits would find ways to use that either out of protest or complete incompetence to ban people. For example, banning users for disagreeing with a controversial decision because “I hate your take, thu…

I was banned from /r/police for mentioning Philip Brailsford, a cop and murderer that gets a lifetime disability pension for PTSD from executing someone on their knees in a local hotel’s hallway. I guess they probably hated my speech.

I was suspended from Reddit in its entirety because I said I wouldn't be offended if someone called me gay. I am not sure why think they I need to be offended by it. It does not seem like something to be ashamed of? But no big loss.

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#126

Post by taylodl »

leoedin wrote: post #5

It's interesting seeing this situation play out across different subreddits. There seems to be 2 kinds of subreddits - the "category" kind (simple, descriptive name) and the "community" kind (have a defined purpose, could exist under a whole range of names) The moderators of all of them see themselves as somehow owning the community, but I think that's less clear to the users. To most users, r/Celebrities is a catego…

People suck, especially Reddit moderators. They've been destroying communities for years. Honestly, the best thing Reddit could do is figure out how to shake these people off like a bad case of fleas. Maybe that is what they're doing?

You're 100% right - people want communities where the posts are largely relevant. Has AI advanced enough to make AI moderation possible? Can upvoting/downvoting posts help train an AI what a community values and what it doesn't? That's where I think things are eventually headed.

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#127

Post by faeriechangling »

taylodl wrote: post #126
leoedin wrote: post #5

It's interesting seeing this situation play out across different subreddits. There seems to be 2 kinds of subreddits - the "category" kind (simple, descriptive name) and the "community" kind (have a defined purpose, could exist under a whole range of names) The moderators of all of them see themselves as somehow owning the community, but I think that's less clear to the users. To most users, r/Celebrities is a catego…

People suck, especially Reddit moderators. They've been destroying communities for years. Honestly, the best thing Reddit could do is figure out how to shake these people off like a bad case of fleas. Maybe that is what they're doing? You're 100% right - people want communities where the posts are largely relevant. Has AI advanced enough to make AI moderation possible? Can upvoting/downvoting posts help train an AI w…

Yeah there’s a lot of problems with the moderation system, essentially pure seniority with appointments.

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#128

Post by yanderekko »

lijok wrote: post #23
yanderekko wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They were expressing their loyalties by saying they want to keep working for free for the company … as long as their tools aren’t deliberately broken by the company Reddit is under no obligation to find these terms acceptable. Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API.

> Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API. Practically, and literally impossible. There's CP and other illegal material being posted in these subs every second. Without API access, you have to have dozens of moderators at all times checking every single incoming post.

So you seriously expect that when June 30th rolls around, basically all major subs are going to be flooded with CP and moderators across the site will be overwhelmed, plunging everything into chaos? That's an amazing prediction - guess we'll see how it plays out.

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#129

Post by randomdata »

lijok wrote: post #23
yanderekko wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They were expressing their loyalties by saying they want to keep working for free for the company … as long as their tools aren’t deliberately broken by the company Reddit is under no obligation to find these terms acceptable. Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API.

> Moderators absolutely can moderate without the API. Practically, and literally impossible. There's CP and other illegal material being posted in these subs every second. Without API access, you have to have dozens of moderators at all times checking every single incoming post.

> There's CP and other illegal material being posted in these subs every second.

Oh well? That is a job for the police to deal with, not an unpaid moderator with a hobby. If you want to help out in your free time, cool, but beyond that, who cares?

Re: Removed as moderator of /r/Celebrities after over 14 years

#130

Post by noodle »

randomdata wrote: post #124
noodle wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot more intangible incentives than you'd think. For example, general clout, influence peddling, an outlet for low power people to experience power, etc.. Many people don't care about those types of incentives, but there are some who do.

> For example, general clout, influence peddling, an outlet for low power people to experience power, etc. Does that meaningfully differ from "some laughs when you strike the ban hammer"? One may not physically laugh out loud, but no doubt the appeal of which you speak stems from pleasurable emotions that stem from the entertainment in experiencing those things. It is understandable why some people would be drawn to…

Yes. For example, I was a mod on a larger tech related subreddit (trying to keep it generic) that was a critical part of my tech stack and daily work at the time. The mods above me would regularly promote their POV on certain topics and do various things to demote/remove the things that they disagreed with. In this way, the community artificially seemed to be more in favor of particular directions on certain topics.

Did this have any material impact? I don't know. But its an example where a set of random people can at least try to leverage their position for more than just "some laughs". Its one example of what I mean about "influence peddling".

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