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What motorcycles teach about maintenance

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Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#121

Post by taeric »

ben7799 wrote: post #68
artisanspam wrote: post #30

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily. Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise.…

I don't motorcycle anymore but did for a long time and did both a huge amount of riding and some very serious maintenance jobs. I have kept bicycling thousands of miles a year since. In the past I did a bunch of different types of bicycle racing. Never did motorcycle racing but I did go to quite a few track days. In general with a few exceptions everything on motorcycles is far more competently engineered. Bicycle ma…

I'm curious if they really could just copy something from the motorcycle world? In particular, I would imagine that the constraints on weight and power that can be applied by the user are very very different.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#122

Post by smileysteve »

korse wrote: post #48
taeric wrote: post #3

I find the root premise flawed. I have known many people that loved working on cars. The plethora of very old vehicles where I live kind of holds that up, as well. My truck is 23 years old, and I'm positive it isn't even close to the oldest around here. Even closer to the general idea, the radio show "Car Talk" was less about cars than the name would have implied. Would love to see it revived in spirit. That said, st…

I think the key is that motorcycle riding hooks you into the machine in a way that few car builds can replicate. Motorcycle maintenance and riding is a tighter loop, with far higher stakes if simple procedures are not followed. Troubleshooting may be similar across all machines, but the best troubleshooting is not having to do it at all. If nothing else, the tight loop created by the motorcycle teaches preventative m…

I think this can be felt in cars; without the extreme life and death situation.

My father taught me the skill of listening to the car, I can diagnose many problems with a motor with barely any description, but I can get really far with a screwdriver as a stethoscope. Thanks to understanding how they work, even rough descriptions of symptoms or noises 20 yards away and I'll remark about what's wrong with the engine or accessories. (Granted, as a kid, we had the sounds of Sebring on reel to reel)

Luckily, ICE knowledge is also transferrable to fun things like boat engines. Boats, then have their own set of physics to try fun things with (like trim tabs, outboard hydrofoils)

As it turns out, a 20 year old car, a 20 year old boat, hobbies like track days and slalom skiing lead to many busy weekends.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#123

Post by smileysteve »

ambicapter wrote: post #42
Fradow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also have a plan B if things go south. And yes, that means not working on your daily (or someone else) if you don't have a backup transportation solution. Because just like we have bugs in production, things break when you wrench on them, even if you do everything by the book (note: first-hand experience there). But those are just setbacks, and no big deal if you are prepared for them.

So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle. That was basically the reason I could never get behind doing work on my own car.

I once took 3 Ubers to 3 different auto parts stores; I've biked to a stores. I've borrowed neighbor's cars.

It's also rare to order too many parts or tools. Rental tools are very useful, but many times as a car ages, you may need to order other parts.

Though I don't get this complaint; because there is often lead time at a mechanic's for the parts too; you still need a backup transportation plan for that situation. (And it's even more likely to effect you during a 9-5 if you your wrenching on weekends or weeknights)

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#124

Post by smileysteve »

BluePen7 wrote: post #73
ambicapter wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle. That was basically the reason I could never get behind doing work on my own car.

Unless you have a bus route that goes straight to the auto parts store, yeah that's the ideal. Often I'd invite a friend over while I did the work, keeps me company and that way they can be the backup vehicle (and I'd return the favour).

This is a great example; said friend also convinces you to stay hydrated, double check your safety, and not just apply more force in the wrong situations.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#125

Post by HybridCurve »

ben7799 wrote: post #66
taeric wrote: post #3

I find the root premise flawed. I have known many people that loved working on cars. The plethora of very old vehicles where I live kind of holds that up, as well. My truck is 23 years old, and I'm positive it isn't even close to the oldest around here. Even closer to the general idea, the radio show "Car Talk" was less about cars than the name would have implied. Would love to see it revived in spirit. That said, st…

Lots of jobs you can do on a motorcycle yourself in a garage are like 100x harder on a car so it's nowhere near as accessible. Stuff like needing a lift, or needing a hoist to lift heavy parts like the engine or transmission. And even almost new motorcycles have minimal computer/electronic issues where the manufacturer is hiding how to do things. Get the Service manual and it tells you basically everything except how…

I agree here: Cost of maintenance from time, parts, tools, space and accessibility are all lower here. Also, as a whole system, a bike is more simple than a car. The only downside I can think of is that a bike is much less forgiving to mistakes.

As a car person I am a bit envious and long for the day when cars could be smaller, cheaper, lighter, and more simple.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#126

Post by dclowd9901 »

StayTrue wrote: post #32
dclowd9901 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you enjoy these, I highly recommend the show Wheeler Dealers, especially the seasons where Ant Anstead and Mark Priestly are acting as shop mechanics. Their systematic approach to diagnosis and clever problem solving are incredibly cathartic. And they’re also very good at what they do.

Agree the shop parts of WD are very cathartic. That contrasts with the buying/selling aspect of the show. I use the ffwd function liberally to edit episodes to half their length.

Same, though I have to say Mike Brewer has impeccable taste in cars and despite how cynical it is to flip cars, he does seem to genuinely love cars and car culture.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#127

Post by smileysteve »

taeric wrote: post #98
slicktux wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently took a car in for a clutch master cylinder replacement. It’s was for a Honda with a 4cylinder and it was buried inside the engine cabin below hydraulic ABS and the Break Master Cylinder; I’m mechanically inclined but this time I was too busy to make time for replacing it myself. I get the car back and the idle is rough…it stalls (car is running lean)when disengaging the clutch and oddly enough brake booste…

Do you have any reason to think that this is more common in shops than in home mechanic things? Because, "left over parts" is a stupid common thing that I have heard from all teardown and rebuild projects. To the point that I'm willing to wager it is more common for home repairs than it is for shop run repairs. Further, you can always split it. Hire them to do it, but then you inspect it when done. If you are good en…

Yes, I think it's more common in shops - especially discount shops. Anecdotally, with my first car, the first quick lube used the wrong wrench too tight on my oil pan bolt and basically stripped it; another friend got the incorrect filter one time.

I may know less, but I'm not being watched for efficiency; I'm less likely to break out an impact gun (partly because it doesn't fit under the car as easily) and I can compare the old to the new. And if I'm tired, I can take a break and check the manual.

And if I do the work, I do the test drive; and if something goes awry, I should know what to look for, for that rattle, that noise, or the next warmup. A quick lube tech might drive your car 30ft to a parking spot, and is likely thinking more about the next car than, any given noise, or whether the thermostat has cycled even once.

On your further, sure you can split the difference, and I do do that when I do take it to a shop, and most of the time I've not been impressed (though I have been with some bmw shops). But this only works if you know what your engine sounds and looks like when clean.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#128

Post by smileysteve »

dockd wrote: post #114
biorach wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a car that had separate throttle butterflies + carbs for each cylinder What cars had these? I imagine it makes for an amazingly close interaction between driver and vehicle

They're not all that fancy. My dad's 1967 Volvo 122s had two carbs for a four cylinder engine. It always failed the emissions test and I can't say that it ever purred like a cat.

Hard to imagine a 67 on an emissions test, I'd guess that would be grandfathered.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#129

Post by smileysteve »

biorach wrote: post #113
ben7799 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car guys are almost completely unable to understand the "feel" difference you're talking about between carburetors and EFI because the car's controls are separated by so many levels from the engine and basically all street cars have such huge flywheel mass that you can't really feel what the engine is doing. And the # of people who ever drove a car that had separate throttle butterflies + carbs for each cylinder is m…

> a car that had separate throttle butterflies + carbs for each cylinder What cars had these? I imagine it makes for an amazingly close interaction between driver and vehicle

Many cars for fuel efficiency or performance.

In modern fuel injected cars, secondary intake and fuel injection systems get more complex with rpm; typically its about 3500 rpm or 50% throttle position cause a different fuel map, an intake runner flapper, and for the last 30 years, some automatic cam timing adjustment.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#130

Post by smileysteve »

Fradow wrote: post #56
ecefour wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me bicycle maintenance is tedious. It’s something I do too on keep my bike running smoothly but not something I look forward to. Motorcycle maintenance is more rewarding. I have a 70s bike so it requires a lot of work to keep it running smoothly. Motorcycle maintenance more complex and I find far more enjoyment in it. It can be tedious, but it’s not as bad as adjusting a derailleur or lubricating a chain. I think…

I do car maintenance rather than motorcycle maintenance, but same opinion: bicycle maintenance is tedious. So tedious that beside chain greasing and tires pressure, I pay someone rather than DIY. I hate adjusting breaks or gears with a passion. On the other hand, cars (and I assume motorcycle as well) maintenance is enjoyable: there is no fiddling with stuff, you fit it, torque it and it's good.

Until you start customizing; then you're figuring out camber and toe angles; remapping your fuel curve, adjusting road height, preload on anti sway bars, different brake pad compounds.
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