Aleister Crowley and William Butler Yeats get into an occult battle (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Aleister Crowley and William Butler Yeats get into an occult battle (2016)

#121

Post by nprateem » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 8:04 AM UTC

burnished wrote: post #109

nprateem wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's what you believe when you don't have belief I know it's trendy to dismiss energy, chakras, astral projection out of hand, but there's some weird shit that feels every bit as real as any other experience if you know how to tap into them. Someone entering trance states (like Crowley's wife apparently) and interacting with those levels of consciousness isn't engaged in belief , they're having experiences that are…

Probably because they make completely wild claims that fall flat at the first hint of scrutiny. Then compounding that, I think a lot of people haven't had a 'religious' experience like that but have probably felt pressured to claim otherwise at some point. The result being that such talk appears completely ridiculous and clearly fictional. Which is all kind of a shame because it seems that these kinds of experiences…

Yeah exactly, the potential for charlatans is huge. But the reports of a certain type of experience are common enough across time and space to be taken seriously.

I was reading a story the other day that Kesha (singer of Timber etc) had a major experience and her therapists recognised it as a spiritual awakening. I was pleased to see she wasn't just given anti-psychotics.

So I think there's more open-mindedness and awareness in some circles, which is the first step in dispassionately investigating anything.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/may/06/kesha-gag-orde...

Re: Aleister Crowley and William Butler Yeats get into an occult battle (2016)

#122

Post by the_other » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 11:06 AM UTC

the_other wrote: post #49

layman51 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve wondered the same thing too. I don’t really keep up to date on political stuff, but I get the feeling that there is a history that links libertarianism, the tech sector, transhumanism, and occultism. I had seen stuff about how Peter Thiel has funded a bunch of art-related events that may sometimes utilize this esoteric aesthetic.

Crowley inspired Jack Parsons who helped found the Jet Propulsion Lab. He’s the forerunner of the 60s free-love & drugs movement, which informs Steven Brand’s Whole Earth Catalog and Don Buchla. Crowley’s also the easiest mystic to find in the English speaking world, and maybe “the west”. He cultivated infamy, leaving traces of himself all over the media through the early 20th century. I think he’s the first “influen…

Replying to myself, and to expand on a point I didn't make as well as I should. I don't think there's any moral or ethical problem with offering or consuming prostitution. There's a moral and ethical problem with how prostitution is handled and how many prostitutes are treated. I dare say Crowley made liberal use of the bad behaviours society tolerates around prostitution. The "moral decay of power" and "obsession with prostitutes" which I'm talking about here refers to Crowley's seeming lack of care about anyone, and disinterest in cultivating love for the sake of company and shared enjoyment of activities. His poorly-acknowledged need for intimacy and connection drove him to only have transactional relationships that petered out, or exhausted the participants, levering all parties under-nourished or wounded.

Of course, I wasn't there and didn't see any of this happen. I'm inferring based on casual research. The notable sources behind these opinions are:

[0]: a well regarded biography of Crowley - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/201713/perdurabo-re...

[1]: a podcast on the Crowley's latter years in London (and generally a good series on esoterica, psychedelia and a particular take on "the counter culture") - https://www.mixcloud.com/sohoradio/bureau-of-lost-culture-ci...

[2]: occasional off-hand discussions with friends and similar ideas echoed in places like the Rune Soup podcast - http://podcast.runesoup.com (there's probably some episodes on Crowely specifically but I'm taking reference more from the general opinion of him expressed by the podcast's presenter)

Re: Aleister Crowley and William Butler Yeats get into an occult battle (2016)

#123

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 12:37 PM UTC

b800h wrote: post #98

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I think I see where you're coming from. I think we're operating with a somewhat different idea of what the spiritual or numinous necessarily is or has to be. For me, mysticism was never all that appealing, regardless of what tradition it came from. I guess the mystic whose thought I'm most familiar with is Terence Mckenna, but I always ingested his thought with a sort of mysticism filter applied. I thought he had…

I get where you're coming from too, I've read plenty of RA Wilson for example, and the Autonomedia stuff. I'd argue there are other ways of confronting the "animal" as you put it, but I have to leave the house now. Good talking.

Hiking is a good one, or just spending time in nature in general. I try to do it a little every day. One of the most powerful such experiences I had was walking home from work one day for 45 minutes in intense rain and cold winds, wearing nothing but a T-shirt and shorts, because the weather was nice enough in the morning. It felt terrible for 5 minutes, then I just sort of accepted my predicament and surrendered, followed by a hefty adrenaline rush, and walked home calmly with a big grin on my face, absolutely drenched. Onlookers must've thought I was completely off my rocker, which to be fair is at least partially true...

It can be very freeing to just surrender to nature some times.

Though I don't necessarily recommend trying this at home, especially if you're immuno-compromised.