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Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

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Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#121

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Not saying I never conjure the spaghetti but whoever coded that really was deep into the tail end of a caffeine, coding and sleep deprivation binge ;)

>whoever coded that really was deep into the tail end of a caffeine, coding and sleep deprivation binge ;) That's most indie game devs of the period, but more so at id Software which splintered the team during Quake's development due to internal squabbles, causing John Romero and others to leave id. You can even tell that from the quality of Quake's levels which start with beautifully crafted and intricate levels, an…

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Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it came out I didn't quite like it. I was like, what's the advantage of 3D when it all looks so polygon-y? Duke Nukem "3D" looks better! The atmosphere was brilliant though.

Have you played the remaster? It has a lot of subtle upgrades (and more polygons of enemies is one of them). It's really good.

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Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#123

Quake was the first PC game I played and still in my top 10 favorite games of all time. The movement STILL feels fresh!

I'm quite curious to see what Quake would look like given a similar treatment as the new Doom games got. That is, distilled down to a pure essence of what the original was trying to achieve.

Would rather see Quake as a top down roguelike RPG.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#124

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Exactly that! They just killed a really cool (somewhat toxic) community. To me Quake World is the best multiplayer game of all time. But Quake 3 comes next and was really really fun to play. Quake Champions is a great disappointment.

Quake Live was just Quake 3. Champions was something different. The community was on life support, and the attempt (Quake Live) wasn't enough to bring people back to good eSports, as the market had moved on from pure skill based games.

It was extremely difficult to play for newcomers. You almost didn't even get a chance to frag old school players once because of the skill discrepancy. I could hang with most of the higher tier guys, but there were some that just seemed nearly invincible. They should have had more resources for developing skills. After I stopped playing, I discovered that some were playing Q3 at ramped up physics speeds in single player. When going back to playing at regular speed, it feels like you're playing in slow motion.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#125
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>whoever coded that really was deep into the tail end of a caffeine, coding and sleep deprivation binge ;) That's most indie game devs of the period, but more so at id Software which splintered the team during Quake's development due to internal squabbles, causing John Romero and others to leave id. You can even tell that from the quality of Quake's levels which start with beautifully crafted and intricate levels, an…

Quake is/was a multiplayer game with a single player mode attached for initial training. Or, from a mod creators perspective, a 3D engine with a demo mode for what was possible. Qtest1, the “demo” that came out a few weeks before release, was multiplayer only.

That's sort of how things ended up, but I don't think it was the intention. Doom and Doom2 were (and are) magnificent single player and co-op games, if you like that sort of thing, which I do (Doom was my lode star when I was working as a gameplay programmer / designer on Soldier of Fortune).

The better single player levels in Quake are actually really intricate and well-designed single player levels too, in exactly the way that Doom levels were great.

Some of the enemy design in Quake is actually pretty good, too, with sharply distinguished silhouettes between enemies, and good discrete gameplay property differentiation between them - well, at least for the zombies, the fiends, and the shamblers. Some of the others are fine, too (scraggs, grunts).

I think the bigger issue is they bit off way more than they could chew.

Specifically, Doom's single player mechanics thrive on having hordes of enemies interacting with highly interconnected levels in interesting ways, making space management a big part of the single player game play. Trying to figure out where you're safe to pick a fight, or how to steer the hordes around to create a space where it's safe to fight, is a big part of the draw. But, because rendering 3d monsters was so expensive compared to 2d sprites, Quake couldn't do hordes when it shipped, and fighting just a few enemies at a time (with their health highly jacked up) was a totally different experience. It could have been made to work, but they would have had to stray a lot further from the Doom gameplay recipe than they did.

And they also would have needed, I think, a lot more monster variety. A single player game with 30 different enemy types that were interesting and differentiated would have been much stronger.

That's my two cents, anyway.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#126
post #72

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Good chance it was John Carmack, probably one the top 10 programmers of all time. He basically built the Quake engine himself. There is a pretty decent analysis of it here: * https://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/index.php I recommend checking it out. EDIT: i was thinking of the analysis done on Quake 2, which is more about the engine: * https://fabiensanglard.net/quake2/index.php while the one about is regarding th…

I'm not sure if it would've been John Carmack in this particular case. He was more concerned with the engine and rendering side of things, less with the gameplay logic stuff. More likely it would've been either John Romero or John Cash who wrote this code, but it's hard to say for sure. Best thing we can hope for is that John Romero pitches in with his impeccable memory :D

You can read Carmack's .plan archive from 1996 here, if you're so inclined:

https://github.com/ESWAT/john-carmack-plan-archive/blob/mast...

It's a _fascinating_ snapshot into Quake's development.

I have no idea if his .plan is a record of what he, specifically, was doing, or if he was just capturing what the programming team was doing, but at the very least, it makes clear that he was aware of huge amounts of very highly specific game code issues as they were being worked on and was almost certainly deeply involved.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#127

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Yes, IIRC it was exactly that teleport. I'll try to repeat this using hint from you :) I was really confused when I hit that.

I tried on Q1 from steam and the original and I can not repeat. I'll have to check how to run QW these days :)

Yeah it's probably qw only. It's pretty easy to get it running these days with the recent clients. You can just download a qw client (ezquake recommended [0]) and extract the executable to your quake folder.

Alternatively you can download nQuake [1], a full pack with most things included except for the non-shareware maps. You can then just place the pak1.pak file inside the id1 folder and make it complete.

Good luck ;)

[0] https://ezquake.com/

[1] https://nquake.com/

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good chance it was John Carmack, probably one the top 10 programmers of all time. He basically built the Quake engine himself. There is a pretty decent analysis of it here: * https://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/index.php I recommend checking it out. EDIT: i was thinking of the analysis done on Quake 2, which is more about the engine: * https://fabiensanglard.net/quake2/index.php while the one about is regarding th…

>probably one the top 10 programmers of all time By what metric? Popularity? PR? Net worth? Complex software? Competitive programming? Impact? For every "top" SE there are tens of similarly skilled engineers that you have never heard of

Impact. He pretty much invented the FPS genre by reading a paper about Z buffers from some guy in the Navy, IIRC. All the Call Duty kiddies owe him a debt. Who knows how long it would have taken for that whole genre to get going without him?

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#129
post #20
post #17

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Hello, video creator here. This is indeed the actual code, and it is written in QuakeC, a language created specifically for the game logic in Quake. The part I'm not sure about is why the creators wanted to add in extra side beams at all.

Oh, didn't know about QuakeC. Shame on me. So both the "normalize" and the improper swap are the part of the original source?

Check this out: https://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/index.php

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#130
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good chance it was John Carmack, probably one the top 10 programmers of all time. Where would you rank Linus Torvalds?

Empathy is a trait that I value highly on a programmer.

Empathy and faux politeness are different things.
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