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Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

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Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

#121

Post by majewsky »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #82

Concerning the points - "Second, it'd actually be a massive burden. The army suddenly has to train a bunch of unmotivated teenager every single year, which in reality ends up being a LARP session in a local forest. This drains a huge amount of resources from the professional soldiers. And all those conscripts will not contribute anything meaningful to the economy while doing so." posted by crote at https://news.ycomb…

> I do believe that there are many people who would like to learn how to use a firearms [...] and get military skills in courses that span over multiple weekends.

The people that this makes me think of the most are also the ones that I least want to be given military training.

Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

#122

Post by krylon »

andsoitis wrote: post #55
krylon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, that does make a lot of sense. Some European politicians want a more unified foreign policy, and a unified military force would give more weight to this desire. On the other hand, it could get very awkward if we had another situation like we had in 2002/2003 when the US were asking other countries for support in their war on Iraq. Europe was deeply divided - at least at the leadership level - in this…

> On the other hand, it could get very awkward if we had another situation like we had in 2002/2003 when the US were asking other countries for support in their war on Iraq. Europe was deeply divided - at least at the leadership level - in this matter. With a unified EU military, countries would have to give up a large amount of sovereignty. If you can't disagree and commit, how unified are you really?

That's the catch, isn't it? Every country wants the EU to be a unified actor on the world stage, but none are willing to give up sovereignty over their foreign policy. That is why it's not going to happen. A loose alliance such as NATO is as as close as we get, at least for the foreseeable future.

Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

#123

Post by CRConrad »

arp242 wrote: post #110
sjaak wrote: post #6

Most of Western Europe is unwilling to fight for their country https://preview.redd.it/of-europeans-who-would-fight-for-the...

"Fight for your own country" is such a vague concept that will mean vastly different things to different people. It's not a surprise that in Eastern Europe the percentage is significantly higher, because there it means "fight against an authoritarian invader who will strip us of our freedoms and will destroy much of what our country stands for". In Western Europe it means ... what exactly? There are no immediate obvi…

> I bet you'd get very different answers with "if Russia would invade your country, then would you be willing to serve in the army to defend it?" And even that would be biased, because such a hypothetical question comes off as very different if it's not all that hypothetical.

Sorry, I don't quite understand – what do you mean, “biased”? Are you saying it should be "if Russia would invade your country...”, or what? If so, then that's silly. Asking the question in the shape of what might happen in stead of what with overwhelming likelyhood won't isn't “bias”, it's just common sense. Or realism, if you will.

But maybe you meant some other kind of “bias”?

Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

#124

Post by CRConrad »

jeltz wrote: post #35
doikor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the country with the highest rate has compulsory military service.

Yeah, Sweden and Finland who both have high rates also both have military service.

Though the Swedish one is pretty much a sham.

Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

#125

Post by CRConrad »

danwee wrote: post #79

It's the year 2023, and the human race cannot simply just talk to fix issues. Incredible. To kill (or hurt) other human beings to protect "your" land or "your" loved ones baffles me. Yes, I love my loved ones (wow) but that doesn't mean I'm willing to kill people who are 99.99999% similar to my loved ones just because the politicians that manage the countries we happen to live in decide so. We think that because we c…

“Every country has an army; either its own, or someone else's.”

Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

#126

Post by CRConrad »

Gud wrote: post #101
FpUser wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole idea is that potential damage is so high that it makes no sense to start conflict. MAD so far worked good enough to prevent major powers from going to war.

This assumes all sides will act rational. 1) eventually, there will be a madman in charge of the nukes. Only a matter of time. As long as there are nukes, I believe they will eventually be used. 2) another option to consider. MAD assumes the 1st strike party will also be annihilated. Perhaps someone will figure out a way to use their nukes first while somehow preventing a counter strike. “Unknown unknowns“. 3) techni…

Bra användarnamn där...

Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

#127

Post by CRConrad »

roenxi wrote: post #68
ethbr0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would "de-fuse this situation" have looked like?

The ones that leap out to me are: * Investment in Russia post-USSR collapse to replicate what happened in Germany after WWII. * Not expanding NATO towards Moscow in the 1990s-2010s (including the discovery that Ukraine is de-facto partially under the NATO security umbrella). * Working to bring Russia into a security alliance targeted at China. * The US not adopting a policy of prolonging the war in Ukraine to bleed o…

Putler’s cadre of useful idiots spouting this naive bullshit are so tiresome.

Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?

#128

Post by CRConrad »

HHC-Hunter wrote: post #92
ethbr0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would "de-fuse this situation" have looked like?

To effectively "de-fuse" the situation in Ukraine, significant historical events would have to have not happened. To start, the EU loan deal in late 2012 and the CIA-backed coup d'etat known as "Euromaidan" in 2013, could/should have played out differently. Instead it's evident that key players like Victoria Nuland, the CIA / Imperialistic Neo-con agenda played a significant role in exacerbating tensions during that…

> To start, the EU loan deal in late 2012 and the CIA-backed coup d'etat known as "Euromaidan" in 2013,

Still the easiest and most foolproof way to identify a Putler propagandist: They always mislabel the EuroMaidan revolution as a “coup”.

Oh well, I suppose one oughta be grateful to them for making it so easy.

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