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Rust: The wrong people are resigning

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Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#121

> The recent incident with ThePHD’s keynote downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully, but… if that’s what it looks like from the outside, and any form of official communication is still days or weeks away, does it really make a difference? yes! it does! we can't keep framing everything as race, gender, or orientation related. people have to have basic filters for what the most important issue is in a situatio…

I don’t think the article is saying we should make everything into a question of race. Only that if Rust doesn’t reply, people will make up their mind, and people usually devolve to the lowest common denominator, which, in this case, is a race issue.

> lowest common denominator

Occam's razor and salience come in to play here too.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#123
post #8

In a way, I find this entire saga incredibly funny. There is so much hand wringing and pearl clutching at something that is supposedly in the shadows - this cabal of four or five people making decisions - that it makes the entire Rust "community" look juvenile. This is the kind of internecine conflict I should see in Anime discord servers, not about a language whose governance involves multiple major corporations!

>This is the kind of internecine conflict I should see in Anime discord servers Anime/furry culture has a significant overlap with the Rust community as far as I can tell as an outsider. E.g. there was that guy developing a Linux GPU driver for M1 Macs, narrating it with an anime "waifu" avatar and a speech plugin that makes you sound like a little girl from a Japanese cartoon.

Oh that’s what was going on. I was curious but never enough to dig. That’s… interesting. Each to their own I guess

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? A cursory google search says it's a guy called Hector Marcan. Is this wrong?

I suspect the person you are replying to is thinking of Alyssa Rosenzwig[0] who appears from the outside to be a major contributor to the work, and who's blog posts on the project were followed by the HN crowd. [0]: https://rosenzweig.io/blog/asahi-gpu-part-7.html

It's Asahi Lina that's implied in this case, even if Alyssa also has worked on GPU

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#125

I think this Rust drama is way over-exaggerated. One community member made one decision for one conference which they probably thought wouldn't be a big deal (I understand now that it is, but to an outsider "keynote downgraded to regular presentation" don't seem like much). And now multiple people are leaving the Rust team, and some random commentators are "disgraced" by the Rust Project, and "threatening" to stop us…

I have no knowledge beyond what's been on Hacker News today, but usually these blowups are over longstanding tensions, even though it looks like an overreaction on the surface.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, you do not believe that the Rust Leadership should make it clear how they came to this decision such that any speculation of other reasons can be put to bed? The fact that it’s open to speculation is the exact reason they need to address it. Just ignoring it at this point doesn’t seem like a good idea, does it?

No, I absolutely think they should make that clear. But among all the reasons they made this decision, however opaque things have been thus far, I think it’s wrong to speculate that the cause is racism.

What are you vehemently disagreeing with me about then?

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#127
post #22

What am I missing? The rust board, or whatever entity, booked a keynote and then unceremoniously canceled it, right? Poor diplomacy, but why is there so much chiming on and so many allusions of various -isms?

From the handful of things posted here to HN about the "developing issue", it looks like:

* Someone was invited to give a keynote; this was voted on at some point

* After the invitation was made and everything was done, some concerns were raised about the content of the talk -- apparently about whether the keynote slot would be seen as an endorsement of the technical contents by the Rust leadership.

* Someone in Rust leadership unilaterally asked for the talk to be downgraded from a keynote to a "normal talk", without telling anyone else or calling for another vote

* The invited speaker, recognizing something political going on, decided to "not play the game" and decided not to speak at all.

* One of the people who voted to invite said speaker to give a keynote, but never heard about the request to "downgrade", decided to resign.

As someone who is also involved in an open-source project with procedures and bylaws and such -- it seems like part of the issue has been certain people in the Rust leadership not being conscientious about following the process. I do believe that back-channel communication and coordination is necessary in real life. However, I also believe that confidence in the process itself is important. Having determined that something was necessary to be done, the person in question should have raised an official vote (perhaps talking to people individually beforehand); and having broken official procedures, that person should at very least apologize publicly for doing so, and perhaps be removed from a leadership role (at least for some period of time, maybe a year).

The author of this piece says people were "trying to do the right thing"; I mean, sure, we're all trying to do the right thing -- but when you screw up, you need to own it.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#128
As a complete outsider to Rust, all I can say is that the Rust community should use this recent "drama" as a stepping stone to figure out the leadership problems and move on with a much stronger determination in the future.

I totally understand that perhaps all of this is not that big of a deal at all considering that sites like Hacker News puts tens of thousands of eyeballs on you in a split second. But if there's something I've learned from these very sites is that Rust is a respected language and these kind of fallouts reek of issues that have nothing to do with the language itself but the people that are supposedly in positions of power.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#129

This is why I refuse to take Rust, Go, or Swift seriously. There are so many other languages out there that aren't insanely political with so many people's hands in it. There is no way good decisions can be made in an environment like that. Of course, the main advantage of joining the Rust cult is that the job market for "Rust programmers" is pretty well-defined, so labeling yourself as a "Rust programmer" will allow…

come to elixir. Everyone is focused on making the language and ecosystem awesome with no drama.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#130
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/guy/woman

Not sure if you are speaking out of knowledge of this particular individual but with respect to other cultures, a biological male presenting as female does not necessarily mean trans the way western cultures think of it. Japanese Okama culture, for instance, is an entirely different animal. I don't know this specific person just thought I'd share that misgendering isn't as black and white as even a lot of trans peopl…

“she/her” on @lina@vt.social
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