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Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

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Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#121

Post by tremon »

oh_sigh wrote: post #35
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a simple equation: Revenue = (value of data per person) x (number of customers) - (probably of data loss) x (probability of fine) x (cost of fine). If that number is greater than zero, they'll do it, if it's less than zero, they won't.

A simple equation but no one actually operates that way. Except for maybe auto manufacturers from late-90s books-turned-movies starring Brad Pitt and Edward Norton. Most variables are impossible to accurately predict. e.g. "Cost/probability of fine" -> how do you model the cost of brand tarnishment?

how do you model the cost of brand tarnishment

You don't, therefore its cost is mostly absent from budget calculations.

And if that doesn't work, you can always rename the company.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#122

Post by _hypx »

unethical_ban wrote: post #61
owyn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota just has to extend the range of the various plug-in hybrid "Prime" models to 100+ miles on EV, which is totally doable. Right now it's already 25-40 miles. In the US in particular that's going to be a good compromise for a lot of people.

I mean, even 40 miles is a significant portion of many peoples commutes. Elimination of 50-95% of gas consumption is a big win.

FYI, 40 miles is not plucked out of a hat. Scientists specifically mention that number because it exceeds the daily average driving distance of >90% of people. It is basically the point where any further increases in range becomes unnecessary cost.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#123

Post by recursive »

wolrah wrote: post #31
recursive wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have basically zero downsides They need oil changes. Some don't mind, but I do. It's a downside.

All machines of meaningful complexity need maintenance if you expect them to last, including EVs, and a fluid change that happens twice a year for most vehicles isn't exactly a huge inconvenience. IMO getting under your vehicle twice a year is a good thing and more people should be encouraged to do it. Getting eyes on the stuff hidden underneath before it gets bad enough to start breaking is always useful.

Sounds like sugar coating on a down side to me.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#124

Post by LamaOfRuin »

mulmen wrote: post #89
Cardinal7167 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will never get fined because it’s how the people who legislate fines are making (and keeping) their money and control.

That's not how democracy works. Apathy is toxic. Please stop hurting us.

Cynicism is not apathy. If they were apathetic, they would have no reason to comment.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#125

Post by r3trohack3r »

> It is important to note that the exposed details do not constitute personally identifiable information, so it wouldn't be possible to use this data leak to track individuals unless the attacker knew the VIN (vehicle identification number) of their target's car.

Or their home address? Location data is absolutely PII and easily deanonymized. Am I missing something?

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#126

Post by jancsika »

zyang wrote: post #80
skrtskrt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota's hybrid tech is and has been the best and most reliable for a very long time. I think it's a shame that the EV regulations and incentives (at least in America) are not as friendly for traditional hybrids and plug-in hybrids. They have basically zero downsides compared to full ICE or full EV, and would still make a massive dent in emissions. PHEVs in particular - most people are going under 100 miles a day, so…

PHEV sounds like best of both world on paper but actually worst of both worlds in reality. You are hauling a massive dead weight. Very little useful space inside. Most of them don't make past 10yrs due to the cost of complex system and battery replacement.

2022 Prius Prime gets better mpg than 2022 Prius, not worse.

And that doesn't count how much better things get if you fully charge the electric 25-mile range battery and measure the mpge.

Additionally, I offer into evidence what happens if you rent a Prius Prime and drive up to the valet at the hotel of your choice. Answer: they won't come and help you. Reason: they'll think you're an Uber driver. Upshot: the idea that Uber drivers could or would eat the cost of worse gas mileage due to dead weight is fatuous.

Toyota does a 10 year manufacturer warranty; the availability and price of used ones older than 10 years (I think they're called Prius Plug-in) should tell you that Toyota has a handle on the complexity of the system they built.

Toyota. Oh what a feeling.

Also, anyone who has one: hit me up if you're thinking about getting rid of one of these pieces of dead weight.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#127

Post by maxden »

chasd00 wrote: post #79
smolder wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a matter of time before that is legislated away as an option. Drunk driver detection and remote disable for law enforcement and other rights-trampling "safety" features will be always-on, probably by law. If it's not those, always-on comms will be mandated to help go to a self-driving fleet. One way or another, they'll force us to have spyware cars.

yeah i've always thought self driving and autonomous car fleets would be a godsend to governments. One order and you can immobilize a street, neighborhood, city or whatever. I bet it's hard to escape oppression on foot.

Imagine it has the same functionality as Bait car.. and not allow the occupants to exit the car either.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#128

Post by carom »

jeffbee wrote: post #94
sandworm101 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I looked around and couldn't find an equivalent for Honda motorcycles. Perhaps Honda understands their customers better than we think. Honda seems perfectly willing to build tracking-free products when the customer base cares enough . I have never met any sportbike rider willing to share one iota of ongoing GPS data with anyone.

Well, the motorcycle community is overstocked with privacy lunatics, preppers, gun nuts and other extremists, so this makes sense. Also I can't think of any Honda motorcycle with a GPS aside from the Gold Wing, which stretches the definition of motorcycle in numerous ways. On the other hand every motorcyclist I ride with carries a Garmin inReach, which is the very definition of sharing your GPS with someone.

I like how you consider people with a reasonable expectation of privacy as extremists.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#129

Post by Mountain_Skies »

LinuxBender wrote: post #118
version_five wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would the support for fines come from? When government understands these issues at all, they only want more control and restriction. The only thing I can imagine legislators getting upset about is they the car manufacturers are not sharing all the info with government by default. Next steps will be mandating tracking, not fining for it.

Where would the support for fines come from? Probably when a legislators private graphic videos with an escort or drug dealer or something more interesting gets leaked. Perhaps some government officials data is present in the leak as we speak. It might be harder to spot if not a personally owned vehicle or still cloud registered to a previous owner.

That's how video rental records became private when Supreme Court justice nominee Robert Bork's records were leaked and suddenly everyone in Congress panicked that it could someday happen to them. Bork turned out to have mundane tastes in movies but obviously members of Congress were renting movies a bit more wild.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#130

Post by tremon »

ycombinete wrote: post #29
greenie_beans wrote: post #10

good lord. i'm so glad my toyota doesn't have any of those features. shout out to the lean method.

What is the lean method in this case?

https://global.toyota/en/company/vision-and-philosophy/produ...

> The Toyota Production System (TPS) [..] is based on the philosophy of the complete elimination of all waste in pursuit of the most efficient methods [it] has evolved through many years of trial and error to improve efficiency based on the Just-in-Time concept developed by Kiichiro Toyoda, the founder (and second president) of Toyota Motor Corporation.

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