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Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

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Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#121
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also apps weren’t part of the original iPhone. So it did even less than I gave it credit for.

You are completely ignoring the reality that Apple products are considered better than peer products even if they are objectively equal. The public doesn't care if Apple wasn't the first company to put a web browser on a phone. The public knows that they like their iPod, and the marketing for the iPhone made it compelling.

> the marketing for the iPhone made it compelling.

That's part of my point. There was a tremendous amount of hype for something that was incredibly limited and objectively bad. However eventually it became very good and took over the world.

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#122

There were literally articles like this about the internet in 1999

FFS, once more for those in the back since people who don't understand how logic works keep pushing this dumb "point" on this board for various things:

"Successful technology was once argued against" is not evidence that "any technology that is argued against will be successful".

That should not be a hard concept to grasp, yet it seems to elude so many. A -> B does not mean B -> A. That's literally like day two of any class on formal logic, and only because the first day was spent discussing the syllabus.

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it almost on a daily basis now, and I pay for the monthly subscription. It’s not magic, but it can save me a lot of time sometimes. I use it in my job as a software engineer, and I mostly use it to create unit tests. The code usually needs a lot of love, but it gets me started.

Copilot and chatgpt are some of the services i am perfectly content paying for. ChatGPT is a great way to delve into new topics, and for that alone it’s worth it.

Curious if you've queried ChatGPT on topics that are not new to you and been impressed with its conveyance of relevant information?

I think there's value here, but I also think people are way overestimating the quality of the "knowledge" they think they're receiving from it on novel topics.

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#124

Large Language Models aren't a silver bullet – they don't solve all your problems. But they are a holy grail – as a universal common sense module they give IT systems a capability they never had before, a capability which has been sought after from since computers became a thing, a capacity for common sense. We now have that capacity and that alone will revolutionize the world. The chatbots aren't about chat, they ar…

You've got it exactly backwards. They're not about common sense; they're about chat.

LLMs act in insensible ways all the time. They contradict themselves. They hallucinate. If you ask an LLM to follow a simple but long logic puzzle and show you its work, it will often make extremely obvious errors and fail to notice even when you ask it to review its work.

What LLMs can do is coherently string together language. That requires sophisticated linguistic understanding, and LLMs are pretty impressive for it. But merely understanding language is not intelligence, or even common sense. I suspect we're approaching the limits of what we can get out of statistical language generation.

Actual AGI would require a logical model of the world, not a probabilistic model of language. Looking at non-human animals, we can see problem-solving evolved long before language did. Language is a second-order phenomenon we use to express first-order problem-solving conclusions about the world, and I'm skeptical that we'll ever manage to accurately recreate first-order problem-solving by training models on the second-order linguistic artefacts of problem-solving. It's actually very easy to create superficially-realistic second-order problem-solving artefacts which, when examined with first-order problem solving capabilities, don't stand up to scrutiny—i.e. contradictions, hallucinations, and faulty reasoning. I suspect that, when computers do learn to problem-solve, it will have been by training to solve problems.

There's also no way we'll get the kind of growth you're predicting from self-play. When it comes to a simple competition like a board game, it's easy to optimize for more skilled play. But there's no objective way to win a conversation. Maybe we'll get some gains out of training these systems against each other, but it's just not a clearly viable use case.

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#125
post #19

It's really easy to get an LLM to hallucinate by asking an open ended question - the type typically answered by a Google search or checking Wikiedpia. However, this is not the best application of LLMs. This criticism is getting old. LLMs are great at: - Text synthesis given all of the facts in a prompt (expand these bullet points) - Summarization (condense this text) - Data extraction (fit this data into this schema)…

> - Fiction (virtual characters, scripts, etc.) I've found it bad for this, does not generate something I'd actually read.

It is good at inferring the correct people into a story. But the story many times leaves something to be desired.

Other times though I did have a lot of fun having it spit out SCP stories. As those can many times have a ton of template like logic to them. Due to the nature of SCP being written in a tone of a formal report. Plus well over 2000 different examples.

Also some of that could be due to lack of training data. Like a TV show might be 4 seasons long and a particular character may have had 3 or 4 lines total. It would be like asking it to write a story about Boba Fett given the original 2 movies where he showed up and had maybe 1 or two lines. There just is not enough to extrapolate anything. But you ask it to write something about Harry Potter and it probably could get the style close enough as there is more training data.

My biggest grip is sometimes it just gets stuck in a loop. Once you are in one, the thing just will dump out the same hallucinations over and over.

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#126
post #14

The first steam engines were also written off as being less powerful than a horse. The first electric motors were written off as being less powerful than steam engines. So it goes. I think both of these views can be true at the same time: ChatGPT (or, LLMs really) are revolutionary and they won't revolutionize the world the way technologists/researchers say. Early adopters will use the technology and do amazing thing…

I think the analogy doesn't work here.

In my understanding, LLMs already hit a big wall. We can't increase the size of models mainly because it's too expensive, but also doing so may not be as effective as before. We've also run out of data. The free lunch is likely already over, for now. It's unlikely that we'll see huge improvements in the direction we've seen during recent years.

Instead, what I see is that the first letter 'L' is getting smaller. People are working on (relatively) smaller specialized models. But it means these models are unlikely outperform larger LLMs (in the direction mentioned above).

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#127
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until they can watch TV to learn (I am serious). If you imbue them with competitive play, oh boy. We just gotta figure out what they think funny is.

"Learning Video Representations from Large Language Models" - https://arxiv.org/abs/2212.04501

Neat! https://github.com/facebookresearch/lavila

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copilot and chatgpt are some of the services i am perfectly content paying for. ChatGPT is a great way to delve into new topics, and for that alone it’s worth it.

Curious if you've queried ChatGPT on topics that are not new to you and been impressed with its conveyance of relevant information? I think there's value here, but I also think people are way overestimating the quality of the "knowledge" they think they're receiving from it on novel topics.

The topics that are not new to me and are of interest come up after its training-dataset-cutoff, thus it can produce bogus information.

I think ChatGPT and the likes should be thought of as cartographers who when probed can provide an outline of regions of the knowledge space and give hints as to what could be useful.

Given then a high level but also imprecise map, I can ask the GPS for clarity as to where I am going.

The problem is that I often don't know where that is and thus I don't know what to ask from the GPS, but I can describe it to the cartographer, and they can draw a map for me.

In this analogy, the GPS is search engines / books / papers.

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it almost on a daily basis now, and I pay for the monthly subscription. It’s not magic, but it can save me a lot of time sometimes. I use it in my job as a software engineer, and I mostly use it to create unit tests. The code usually needs a lot of love, but it gets me started.

Copilot and chatgpt are some of the services i am perfectly content paying for. ChatGPT is a great way to delve into new topics, and for that alone it’s worth it.

ChatGPT uses the word "delve" a lot. If it wasn't for the lowercase "i" in your message, I would have been skeptical that this was a message generated by chatGPT. Perhaps your speech tendencies are merging with those of ChatGPT. Before too long your independent thoughts and writings may accidentally be flagged by GPT detectors, haha.

Re: Don't believe the hype: why ChatGPT is not the “holy grail” of AI research

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ChatGPT is a great way to delve into new topics Like bears in space? ))) seems like a great way to delve into known topics so that you are able to catch it when it starts to confidently and plausibly hallucinate

And we should blindly trust anything you read on the internet written by a real person? It's still valuable as a "search engine" with a different interface, especially if you can describe the problem but don't know the words to search for. For me that's a common issue when jumping into a new space.

At least there is usually a comments section on websites where people can call out bullshit.

If you're not an expert in your field, GPT will successfully lie to you. There's no second opinion.

Rather than a feelings filter, it needs an integrity filter.

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