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Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

helionenergy.com

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Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#121

Post by jdminhbg »

gpm wrote: post #64
chroma wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't "just hook it up to the grid". You have to work with the local utility company or companies to negotiate pricing, SLAs, and safety concerns (eg: shutting off power when linemen are working). Helion's fusion reactors are small enough to fit in a couple shipping containers. The idea is that the units can be mass produced in a factory, then transported to data centers and replace the grid hookup as the primary…

But you do have to compete with grid hookups for pricing in data centers. I definitely buy that there's a market for small power plants that cost too much to be competitive on the grid (in some sense that's literally what generators already are), but I don't see how datacenters are in that market.

> But you do have to compete with grid hookups for pricing in data centers.

You do, unless you sign a contract with a large datacenter operator that's willing to pay above market price for the PR benefit/green energy credits of a working fusion reactor. Which presumably is the point of this.

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#122

Post by marcosdumay »

gpm wrote: post #64
chroma wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't "just hook it up to the grid". You have to work with the local utility company or companies to negotiate pricing, SLAs, and safety concerns (eg: shutting off power when linemen are working). Helion's fusion reactors are small enough to fit in a couple shipping containers. The idea is that the units can be mass produced in a factory, then transported to data centers and replace the grid hookup as the primary…

But you do have to compete with grid hookups for pricing in data centers. I definitely buy that there's a market for small power plants that cost too much to be competitive on the grid (in some sense that's literally what generators already are), but I don't see how datacenters are in that market.

> but I don't see how datacenters are in that market

Are you kidding? If datacenters aren't the majority of that market, they will be soon, and their share will keep growing on the short term. Only factories match their consumption, every other wholesale energy buyer is relatively tiny.

But that market will pay at most a 3x to 5x markup on the grid price. There exists a smaller one formed by far from the grid activities that will pay a much higher price.

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#123

Post by radicaldreamer »

DennisP wrote: post #104
kredd wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general attitude in my circles is none of those technologies have had any positive impact on our or our loved one’s lives. Don’t get me wrong, they’re all “cool and awesome”, but when you put it into perspective of “is life easier” or “has our happiness increased”, my answer would be a strong no. This general skepticism leads to younger generation to be more cynical, especially when things that have been promised…

Here's one with an impact: one of my relatives was diagnosed seven years ago with stage 4 melanoma, which a couple decades ago was a one-year death sentence. She got three doses of immunotherapy, her tumors shrank, and last year her oncologist said don't even bother coming in for scans anymore, you're fine.

I'm reminded of a coworker who asked what has been more impactful of an invention to humanity than Steve Jobs and the iPhone and was speechless when I was like how about pasteurization, penicillin, or vaccination?

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#124

Post by nforgerit »

nindalf wrote: post #105
nforgerit wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well what's the fraction of success stories compared to the promises given? And: The success stories you're mentioning would have been there (even earlier in many cases) if they'd be consistently developed over time. Tesla did not invent the e-car nor did SpaceX have the idea to go to space. Maybe it's just people being fed up with glossy techbro marketing whilst being fired because of "past overhiring"?

Too often I've seen people inventing things in a lab being denigrated for not commercialising and scaling their invention. That's the top comment on any battery announcement by a research group. > Tesla did not invent the e-car nor did SpaceX have the idea to go to space. You're doing the opposite, taking credit away from people who've actually succeeded at scale. I don't like Twitter guy at all, but even I can give…

Credit given! This is not, what I was up to. I was more referring to the marketing stunts behind those startups. In case of Helion this looks definitely like a marketing gig because they don't nearly seem to be there in any way.

That together with things like this weird "fusion success story" at NIF (not nearly there, even further away than pretty much all fusion research before it but a proof of concept for alternative approaches to fusion) or this weird "we were able to beam particles through a wormhole" story some months ago, make me very skeptic about the current startup economy.

It all reminds me so much of the movie "Don't look up".

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#125

Post by sebzim4500 »

bmitc wrote: post #117

Does anyone have some thoughts on whether fusion will actually help fight climate change? Of course, fusion is far more clean than coal or gas and less environmentally destructive, aside from the mining of materials required, than say hydro power plants. But from what I can tell, the primary contributor to damaging the climate and environment is consumption, as a process. I currently see no end result where fusion do…

I don't understand your argument at all. In a world where people can produce power through fusion cheaper than they can through coal or oil, why would use of non-clean materials increase?

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#126

Post by sebzim4500 »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #23
trebligdivad wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn't cost MS a bean until Helion have something working, but to Helion it means they can raise money for the actual construction of the first-production machine with the investors knowing someone will pay them for it if it works.

Electricity is a commodity. How could they possibly have a working product that they can’t sell? Just hook it up to the grid and there you go.

MSFT might be paying above market rates in exchange for positive PR.

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#127

Post by sebzim4500 »

RivieraKid wrote: post #48

I think Helion has a 50% chance of achieving net electricity next year. When hearing about fusion research, the vast majority of people immediately react with something like "fusion is always 30 years away lol". There's a good chance they will be very surprised.

Realistically, HN would still find a reason to be miserable.

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#128

Post by anonuser123456 »

bmitc wrote: post #117

Does anyone have some thoughts on whether fusion will actually help fight climate change? Of course, fusion is far more clean than coal or gas and less environmentally destructive, aside from the mining of materials required, than say hydro power plants. But from what I can tell, the primary contributor to damaging the climate and environment is consumption, as a process. I currently see no end result where fusion do…

There will need to be policy, hopefully in the form of Pigouvian taxes. But before you can get the policy in place you will need a viable source of energy that’s cost competitive with hydrocarbons.

Once we have a viable alternative to hydrocarbons at scale, carbon/methane/ high GWP gases will need to be priced appropriately (e.g. taxed in a way to incentivize reduced consumption).

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#129

Post by sebzim4500 »

ramraj07 wrote: post #92
thepasswordis wrote: post #58

HN, what the heck has happened to you? What is with all of these cynical comments? Helion is an awesome company, their technology is real, and this is cool. >oh no this might not work! Do you guys not understand that you’re posting on the forum of a venture capital firm/startup accelerator?

You can be optimistic when you’re just making an app to rent your room out or to find a dog walker. You can hustle and sell useless SaaS services long enough to get acquired for no real reason except managerial power plays in large companies. In the world of software you can kinda make almost any idea work with sweat and political maneuvering. You can literally see that they’re trying to play the same games here. How…

That's almost exactly what they said to Elon Musk when he started SpaceX, and now they are on a streak of >100 successful missions in a row.

Re: Helion’s fusion power purchase agreement with Microsoft

#130

Post by sebzim4500 »

rf15 wrote: post #95
deweller wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8 years ago, HN was a place full of optimism and excitement. I've noticed a marked increase in cynicism in this place. Like most of the world, it suffers from extreme tribalism and group think. I miss the former positive HN. And the positive world. sigh

Maybe we just grew up? There is still plenty we are enthusiastic and positive about here, but discussion sure has become more nuanced.

Cynicism has nothing to do with nuance.
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