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Datomic is Free

blog.datomic.com

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Re: Datomic is Free

#121

Post by switchbak »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #96
MrGilbert wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure, but I think from a marketing perspective, you do not want to write "No" anywhere. I might be wrong, and I'd love if someone with knowledge in this area could answer. It's something I recall from the back of my mind...

Dishonesty and subterfuge are bad marketing tactics .

Marketing to developers is also decidedly different than for non devs. We've been baited and switched, and screwed over a million times (thanks Google). It takes a lot of trust building to get me to trust any organization.

I especially don't trust free shit if I don't have access and control of the future of the code. Even then it's not a sure thing.

Re: Datomic is Free

#122

Post by xpe »

brianwawok wrote: post #44

Datomic LOOKED cool 10-12 years when it first came out. But they started from day 1 with a price, so most people, me included, just passed over it. I think they went way too fast to commercial, and needed to go a freemium model to actually get market share.

This doesn’t quite reflect the history. Datomic had various free/trial options. They evolved a little bit. Someone who watched the pricing and licenses very closely probably could do a better timeline than I could.

Re: Datomic is Free

#123

Post by ilc »

mbreese wrote: post #113
assbuttbuttass wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a lawyer, but doesn't the Apache license specifically grant the right to redistribute the source code? > You may reproduce and distribute copies of the Work or Derivative Works thereof in any medium, with or without modifications, and in Source or Object form

But what if you never had the source form? You can’t redistribute what you never had… This is actually an interesting question. But I can’t see how a binary only distribution would be in the spirit of the Apache license.

It is the very reason the license exists.

It is in the spirit and the letter of the license to do binary only distribution.

Why do you think so many companies are pushing the Apache License 2.0 over the GPL?

Re: Datomic is Free

#124

Post by xpe »

harperlee wrote: post #117
xpe wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are valid reasons not to release the source code that have nothing to do with “security by obscurity”: legal, various notions of “control”, and more

And I’d add that security by obscurity is also a valid reason. It’s bad as a standalone strategy, but good as a complementary strategy. Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24444497

Nubank’s goal to keep the Datomic source code private remains secret is based primarily on IP law and internal security controls (on employees, contractors, and possibly obfuscating compilation). Disagree?

Re: Datomic is Free

#126

Post by brianwawok »

xpe wrote: post #122
brianwawok wrote: post #44

Datomic LOOKED cool 10-12 years when it first came out. But they started from day 1 with a price, so most people, me included, just passed over it. I think they went way too fast to commercial, and needed to go a freemium model to actually get market share.

This doesn’t quite reflect the history. Datomic had various free/trial options. They evolved a little bit. Someone who watched the pricing and licenses very closely probably could do a better timeline than I could.

Right but it was always very clear “you can have it in dev for free, but prod is $$$$$”. It was not something like “use it free in prod as much as you want, or pay us for support”

I had a few projects it would have been cool on, but I just did postgres instead and won in the long run.

Re: Datomic is Free

#127

Post by newswasboring »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #96
MrGilbert wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure, but I think from a marketing perspective, you do not want to write "No" anywhere. I might be wrong, and I'd love if someone with knowledge in this area could answer. It's something I recall from the back of my mind...

Dishonesty and subterfuge are bad marketing tactics .

Is it though? Seems to me that most marketing today is subterfuge.

Re: Datomic is Free

#128

Post by xpe »

harperlee wrote: post #117
xpe wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are valid reasons not to release the source code that have nothing to do with “security by obscurity”: legal, various notions of “control”, and more

And I’d add that security by obscurity is also a valid reason. It’s bad as a standalone strategy, but good as a complementary strategy. Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24444497

> And I’d add that security by obscurity is also a valid reason. It’s bad as a standalone strategy, but good as a complementary strategy.

As the thread you link mentions, the phrase “security by obscurity” historically means (more of less) “security primarily by obscurity”. But sometimes this point gets lost. The thread you mention is interesting.

Wikipedia:

> Security through obscurity (or security by obscurity) is the reliance in security engineering on design or implementation secrecy as the main method of providing security to a system or component.

Summary:

Layers of security (which can include a wide range of techniques, including obfuscation, etc): useful, because delaying attacks and/or making them less likely is useful.

Obscurity as a main method: theatre, because it often leads to self-deception about the true risks involved

Re: Datomic is Free

#129

Post by [deleted] »

xpe wrote: post #124
harperlee wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I’d add that security by obscurity is also a valid reason. It’s bad as a standalone strategy, but good as a complementary strategy. Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24444497

Nubank’s goal to keep the Datomic source code private remains secret is based primarily on IP law and internal security controls (on employees, contractors, and possibly obfuscating compilation). Disagree?

[deleted]

Re: Datomic is Free

#130

Post by harperlee »

xpe wrote: post #124
harperlee wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I’d add that security by obscurity is also a valid reason. It’s bad as a standalone strategy, but good as a complementary strategy. Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24444497

Nubank’s goal to keep the Datomic source code private remains secret is based primarily on IP law and internal security controls (on employees, contractors, and possibly obfuscating compilation). Disagree?

> Disagree?

No idea! Just speculating…

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