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LSD: Not Even Once

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Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#121
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotes are fine for story telling but have no place in debates.

Anecdotes are rarely definite proof of anything. But bayesian evidence is bayesian evidence. And if someone tried to argue that LSD can never cause visual snow, a single anecdote is enough to refute that. Anecdotes are not always wrong in debate.

The thing is, anecdotes can be easily made up. I’m not saying that’s happening in the case of visual snow, but we need studies to talk about things like this, not anecdotes.

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder if a counterpoint to adopting almost anything will arise with 1 million people having the ability to obtain a drug with ease instead of 10,000 people that are forced to jump through a lot of hoops and navigate a specific kind of closed drug culture to come out changed for the better. When there's a 0.0001% chance of years-long negative effects, that's a lot more people making up the minority. Safety r…

The person wasn't talking about policy but about how people aggressively pretend like these drugs can do no harm. You can have a completely free policy while also being honest and accurate about what the drugs do and what can happen.

I had a similar thought. I talk about how delicious Japanese, Korean, Indian, etc food is, but don't warn people that .23% of Americans are allergic to Sesame oil which is used often in those cuisines. Same can be said about products that contain say peanuts. Would you say people aggressively pretend like those foods do no harm if they aren't caveating their love of it with facts about allergy rates and impact? Further, there was a very long discussion on this forum about the sesame warning being mandated and whether that was government overreach or not.

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#123
post #66

I find it so ironic that on one hand, we are placing great value on achieving consciousness with artificial intelligence and yet, we place so little value on our own. If this "consciousness" thing is so hard to get, then why do we try our best to get rid of it through alcohol, recreational drugs etc ?

Drugs create altered states of consciousness, not get rid of it

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#124

I’ve noticed a troubling trend among psychonauts: any reports of terrible experiences or long lasting negative effects of psychedelics are waved away in two different ways: 1 - blaming of the person who had the experience, for not having the proper “set and setting”, or not respecting the drug. 2 - claiming that there’s no such thing as a “bad trip”, and only a challenging one that takes time to integrate. There migh…

> That it’s absurd how much suffering the human mind is capable of experiencing.

When I was 8 or 9 I had a night terror that involved some sort of life-sized game of Tetris that was moving terribly fast. My brain wholly adopted the belief that if I were to lose, everyone I loved would die horribly. I was trapped in this night terror for what felt like forever. Afterwards I refused to sleep voluntarily for weeks.

To this date, nothing has come close. I would describe the feeling as “dread.” Just complete, pure dread.

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#125
LSD, like certain other hallucinogens, is a serotonin analogue, and its immediate effect comes about through binding to serotonin receptors, in particular one called the 5-HTP2A receptor. Since any meaningful discussion of this requires a certain degree of background knowledge:

> "In terms of visual perception, the 5-HT2A receptor has been found to play a role in modulating the processing of visual information. Specifically, activation of this receptor has been shown to enhance certain aspects of visual perception, such as the perception of brightness, contrast, and spatial frequency. This effect is thought to be mediated in part by the 5-HT2A receptor's ability to increase the activity of neurons in the visual cortex, which is the part of the brain that processes visual information."

> "Interestingly, the 5-HT2A receptor has also been implicated in altered states of consciousness, such as those induced by psychedelics like LSD and psilocybin. These substances are known to activate the 5-HT2A receptor, which is thought to underlie their profound effects on perception, thought, and emotion. However, the precise mechanisms by which 5-HT2A receptor activation leads to these effects are still not fully understood and are an active area of research in the field of neuropsychopharmacology."

So, let's consider the question raised in this post, which is: "how a could a temporary substrate-receptor interaction result in a long-term effect that persists well past the biochemical elimination of the drug from the user's system?"

I don't think this is uniquely applicable to LSD vs. any other drug, by the way. Some people might try an opiate-class drug once and develop an immediate craving for that experience. However, this really cannot be attributable to the basic drug-receptor binding - so it's probably something to do with neuronal rewiring of some sort. If neurons respond to the immediate drug experience by forming new neuronal connections to other cells, then this could explain how a long-term effect (visual snow, opiate craving, etc.) could be created by neurons seeking new connections in response to the short-term effect of one-time drug use.

Profoundly, it seems our brains are always rewiring themselves in relation to various stimuli and experiences, but LSD and similar drugs are affecting this process at fairly low levels in the neuronal hierarchy.

Note that this is precisely why many people have said that the psychedelic drug cohort, under controlled conditions, has unique potentials for curing various mental illeness-related conditions. The use of the potent hallucinogen ibogaine to effect long-term cures for opiate addiction is one such case:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28402682/

> "Conclusion: A single ibogaine treatment reduced opioid withdrawal symptoms and achieved opioid cessation or sustained reduced use in dependent individuals as measured over 12 months."

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#126
post #52

> About 160 µg later Serious? You went with a strong dose on your first try and you blame Steve Jobs ? I mean, don't get me wrong, he was a dick what with driving a un-plated Porsche just so he could park in handicap spots and all, but this is 100% your fault. According to erowid, a starter dose is around 25ug.

Wonder if the first time he drank he chugged a fifth of vodka.

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#127

Had a similar experience, but with the much more tame marijuana. It was a 6-hour long panic attack for me. Similar to the author of this, I read for years of how "the only way it could ever harm you is if you were crushed by 100 lbs of it" on sites like Reddit. It wasn't until after getting high that I heard about marijuana amplifying stress tendencies in a minority of people. I've always been high strung, and maybe…

When folks say that marijuana's a safe drug, it's purely in reference to the fact that it wont kill you. 100 shots of tequila in an hour will cause death; 100 tokes of marijuana will not. The problem this results in is an interesting one: marijuana growers are constantly increasing the per gram density of THC/cannabinoids in their plants. The consequence of this is that today's marijuana, compared to that of the '70s, is like drinking Everclear vs. drinking a bud light. I've avoided using marijauna for a long long time now because of this; there's just no way to have a controlled slow buzz with marijuana.

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#128
post #66

I find it so ironic that on one hand, we are placing great value on achieving consciousness with artificial intelligence and yet, we place so little value on our own. If this "consciousness" thing is so hard to get, then why do we try our best to get rid of it through alcohol, recreational drugs etc ?

[deleted]

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#129
post #58

I definitely think cases like this can happen, and I've had troubles with some drug experiences in the past as well. That being said, the author's report of how they tried psilocybin sounds like a warning sign to me: 3 grams, seemingly at home alone. That is a big dose for a first time, and I've never heard anyone recommend taking it alone at home.

My first mushroom experience was a similar dose at home alone. I was a teenager and sneaking it in after high school. It probably wasn't the best idea, but the experience I had was pretty amazing.

I am the sort of person who likes to do these drugs alone, put on a record, and chill (although I do also immensely enjoy being in nature).

Re: LSD: Not Even Once

#130

Had a similar experience, but with the much more tame marijuana. It was a 6-hour long panic attack for me. Similar to the author of this, I read for years of how "the only way it could ever harm you is if you were crushed by 100 lbs of it" on sites like Reddit. It wasn't until after getting high that I heard about marijuana amplifying stress tendencies in a minority of people. I've always been high strung, and maybe…

> Similar to the author of this, I read for years of how "the only way it could ever harm you is if you were crushed by 100 lbs of it" on sites like Reddit I think this is the direct result of just nonsensical criminalization that equated cannabis with drugs like heroin, while the toxicity of cannabis is much lower than alcohol, for example. Legalization leads to better education, which typically provides both sides…

> Legalization leads to better education

It also leads to more cases of abuse. Like many things, legalization is both good and bad at the same time.

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