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Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

spectrum.ieee.org

121–130 of 189 posts

Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#121

Just to be clear, the "vast stores" of water are only theoretical. There are no implications for Moon colonies. You are not going to try to extract water from glass beads. You would need to go through thousands of tons of regolith before extracting a single liter of water, and that's only if you have 100% efficiency, which you will not have. If we ever decide to have Moon colonies we'll have 3 big problems: we won't…

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Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reminder that the moon does not have a "dark side". This is a misnomer. It isn't. The side of the moon that cannot be seen from Earth is called the dark side of the moon. It's called that for the same reason that the Dark Ages are called dark: because we can't see them. It is true that the dark side of the moon gets just as much sunlight as the light side does.

AFAIK the "Dark Ages" are named like that because the Renaissance people thought they were enlightened, compared to the "barbaric people" who lived before them, not because we have less documents (although we do)

Perhaps originally, but the reason it persists as a term even when used by people who don't think medieval people were relatively unenlightened is that it can also be construed as referring to the lack of documents. (And for those who do regard medieval people as relatively unelightened, they might regard the lack of documents as something intrinsically associated with that.)

Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#123
post #88

Even assuming the ice is pure water, wouldn't it be radioactive given that some molecule come from the sun and the moon is exposed to radiations with no protective atmosphere?

Being exposed to radiation does not make something radioactive. Radioactive particles settling on the thing is what usually causes things to become radioactive. We actually use radioactivity to sterilize food.

Neutron activation will make things radioactive?

Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#125

Just to be clear, the "vast stores" of water are only theoretical. There are no implications for Moon colonies. You are not going to try to extract water from glass beads. You would need to go through thousands of tons of regolith before extracting a single liter of water, and that's only if you have 100% efficiency, which you will not have. If we ever decide to have Moon colonies we'll have 3 big problems: we won't…

Certainly, getting those elements in larger quantities will be important, but by the time we have the cargo capacity to build colonies on the moon it seems likely that someone would be very happy to trade, say, 100t of Earth-sourced C/N/H for 100t of Moon-mined Au, shipping included.

Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#126

Just to be clear, the "vast stores" of water are only theoretical. There are no implications for Moon colonies. You are not going to try to extract water from glass beads. You would need to go through thousands of tons of regolith before extracting a single liter of water, and that's only if you have 100% efficiency, which you will not have. If we ever decide to have Moon colonies we'll have 3 big problems: we won't…

a recent megaprojects video claimed harvesting water from asteroids was more worth the time and money than to do the same for rare earth metals.

apparently bringing tons of rare earth metals back to earth would only lower their price and therefore not make the trip worth the money, but i guess this isn't a problem for the water that those asteroid might hold as that would still be not only valuable but worth the expense of harvesting it from asteroids.

if the moon is closer, and not only less complicated to harvest from but has the advantage that you can keep a permanent drilling rig set up without needing to re-land on a complicated surface every single time, that would seem better than harvesting water from asteroids to me

Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#127
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent was concerned about spoiling pristine regolith by footprints and tracks. Anyway, multiply the mine areas several times, it's unlikely the raw regolith will be exported. Processing will need solar power plants and radiators to dump waste heat (can't dump it into atmosphere as we're used to).

You could conduct the heat via heat pipes into the crust. The lunar basalt has decent thermal conductivity. Using something like mercury or alcohols (which have a low freezing point, and have ok phase change temperatures), or something more exotic you should be pretty ok. Radiators are mostly useful off a surface that can act like a heat sink, especially one as cold as the moon.

Oh I’d say you wouldn’t process regolith for export at all, but for use on the moon. I think you wouldn’t process and export raw materials on the moon I think you would do heavy industry you wouldn’t do on earth in the cave systems of the moon and export manufacture goods. I don’t think you would even export them to the earth but into orbit or interplanetary. Exported materials from the moon to mars would be a lot more economical than the earth.

Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#128

Every such discovery reaffirms that the moon is a time machine. Next to (or inside) the ice from the Permanently Shadowed Regions, there may be clues to how life got started on Earth. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-007-6546-7_... It's estimated that this trapped ice may be from the Earth and the Moon from 3.6B to 4.2B+ years ago. Along with other volatiles, this may give humanity an unprecedented lo…

> I'm so excited about what the future has in store for us.

Me too. But sometimes I read too many snarky HN comments and I forget.

We are very fortunate.

Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, many would like to live just as this tiny minority.

That can be changed far more easily than which planet we live on. Arguably most people are forced to under-consume, but they’d be happy far below the most conspicuous of over-consumption now happening.

That's a popular argument that falls apart when you look at the aggregate level of material wealth on this planet. Using GDP per capita as a passable proxy: current world GDP per capita is around $12k afaik, which is about where Mongolia and Indonesia are. Considering high level of inequality there (when you go there as a tourist, you're exposed to the wealthiest part of the society, and we're talking about the average), do you think people would be happy to freeze their consumption on that level? Or even lower, because most people talking about "over-consumption" also think that the current level of consumption is unsustainable?

To make things worse, there are also embedded emissions. You can see it with China, coming out of poverty requires infrastructure expenditure, which means "wealth averaged out" would be even worse than the average would suggest, as you can't average sewers and highways, you have to build them anew.

There is just not enough wealth on this planet as it currently is. When you're saying "they'll be happy far below the most conspicuous of over-consumption", it actually means "worse than an average citizen of Mongolia, forever", which doesn't sound as enticing, does it

Re: Vast new stores of water reported on the moon

#130

Just to be clear, the "vast stores" of water are only theoretical. There are no implications for Moon colonies. You are not going to try to extract water from glass beads. You would need to go through thousands of tons of regolith before extracting a single liter of water, and that's only if you have 100% efficiency, which you will not have. If we ever decide to have Moon colonies we'll have 3 big problems: we won't…

> since your weight in carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen will exceed many times your weight in gold

Your weight is the same in any element, maybe you meant your worth?

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