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End-of-Life Dreams

commonwealmagazine.org

121–130 of 195 posts

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#121
post #33

Whatever is happening, it is sad to hear about yet another case where doctors are too arrogant to listen to their patients and try to understand. It might not be a spiritual experience, it might be delirium. But perhaps it is important step in the human mind making peace with death. And it disappoints me greatly that the medical community shuns this phenomenon and anyone who tries to research it. There is nothing wor…

In defense of doctors, they are ideally supposed to practice based on evidence. That is the whole point of Western medicine in good and bad.

As a physician you might see people in your work that report these dreams and take it as a data point if it is very common. But what about people who see such dreams that don’t report them, or who aren’t even sick and it was just a dream, and most of all, who are sick and see such a dream but don’t die? What is the real statistical correlation between those dreams and death?

Any good doctor needs to be very skeptical about everything until there is properly gathered and assessed statistical evidence. It’s the opposite of being arrogant to require extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims.

This is not a statement to dismiss end of life dreams. I think it sounds like this is a real phenomenon.

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#122
The Swiss psychologist Carl Jung had built what he called a tower on lake Zurich. A few weeks before he died, he had a dream of making a journey to the other side of the lake.

My late grandfather one day was puzzled because he was convinced that there had been something about “a suitcase that’s got everything in it”. My wife and I exchanged glances. I told him, “You dreamed that”. He looked puzzled and repeated, “A suitcase that’s got everything in it”.

He died one week later.

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#123
post #82

Just a theory: The brain probably subconsciously predicts death when it is basically a sensor for your entire body, when it does predict it, it triggers something basic in nature, looking forward to something that will happen and non materialistic and basic in nature.

What would be the evolutionary benefit of that?

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#124
post #91
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it disappoints me greatly that the medical community shuns this phenomenon The medical community is a joke as a whole. They even brush off side effects because they have never heard about them before. They are as unscientific as you can go. Nowhere in hard science world do people act like that.

Ok, I'll state the reverse opinion in the same stark way as you did: why should they? Their job is helping people who still want to live and can be helped. If someone is terminally ill and has made peace with the thought that they are going to die soon, there's nothing they can do for them anymore...

> Their job is helping people who still want to live and can be helped.

By this logic pain management is also unnecessary, because the patients won't (generally) die of pain.

It is necessary because understanding the process (1) may improve the quality of (remaining) lives of the patients, and (2) may actually help prolong lives, similar to the placebo effect.

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#125
I think the "looking back on your life" happens in advance as well.

My father has stage 4 cancer, and while he is undergoing treatment and we have hope, he is now confronted with the possibility of death. I've found him recounting stories of his childhood and younger days a lot more. I've never asked him about his dreams, but clearly the possibility of death has changed something fundamental where he's looking back a lot more and thinking about his parents / grandparents and others who've passed on.

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#126
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is nothing. It is always nothing. The "spiritual", the "religion" is always about hiding the politics in the mystery. We didn't know we were on a planet and we believed meretricious speculators rambling on and on about the "genesis" of the sun, the moon, and the earth. We didn't know why and how were there so many kinds of animals around us and we listened to stories. Nowadays we don't know how the brain encodes m…

> It is always nothing Classic atheistic arrogance here. Our understanding of the brain may be transformed, but had it occurred to you that when you dissect things you begin to miss the wood for the trees? Nihilism is more absurd than any religion.

Classic argument to obscurantism.

I am not even a nihilist, but sure, after nihilism will destroy the lives of people for 2,000+ years, I will agree that it's more absurd than any religion. So far, the great religions of the world, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, needed thousands of years to realize that slavery is not really a great idea, and some are not yet convinced, but are pressured by those dissecting atheists to repress their true nature: oppress, admonish, control.

And to think you can't appreciate the beauty of the world just because you understand it, it's simply mind-boggling. Given how much I appreciate a computer program about which I know every nook and cranny because I developed it from an empty text file, I would venture to say: only if you fully understand something you can start to appreciate its beauty, start to be responsible for its future.

(Also, the expression "it is always nothing" is full of poetic vim given how atoms are mostly empty space and how the universe itself is mostly empty space—unfathomable voids sprinkled with galactic filaments [1])

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_filament#/media/File:Ne...

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#127
There's a good book on these kinds of dreams from a Jungian point of view: "On Dreams and Death: A Jungian Interpretation" by Marie-Louise Von Franz. It can be hard going though, as it is a book about death. The Jungian perspective is that dreams are a meaningful natural phenomenon, and the unconscious seems to know about death and expects to continue on in some other form.

Personally, I have these kinds of dreams about other people. I usually have a very particular type of dream, or series of dreams when somebody is going to die, or has died. It doesn't comfort me as much as it should. Death is still death.

It's like, "The universe is arbitrary and silent most of the time, but when we take someone from you, we want you to know that we really mean it."

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#128

When my father died, he had a waking dream of this. Saw a river with all his dead family across the water. Smiling and waving. Coming to the banks. Waiting for him to cross. His last words were “Cover me in a blanket of sunshine.” He died two hours later. What’s a little remarkable to me is that he had these visions in this detail despite being lifelong blind. As I was reading the article, I kept wondering which came…

[deleted]

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#129
“your wife called the nurses in the middle of the night to say that she saw her parents on a boat outside the window beckoning her to come. I know this may not make sense,” he went on, “but we see this repeatedly in our patients. When patients report a vision like this, they almost always die within a day or two.

interestingly, this kind of dream was made into a state religion by ancient Egyptians

Re: End-of-Life Dreams

#130

When my father died, he had a waking dream of this. Saw a river with all his dead family across the water. Smiling and waving. Coming to the banks. Waiting for him to cross. His last words were “Cover me in a blanket of sunshine.” He died two hours later. What’s a little remarkable to me is that he had these visions in this detail despite being lifelong blind. As I was reading the article, I kept wondering which came…

    Eden Rock

    By Charles Causley

    They are waiting for me somewhere beyond Eden Rock:
    My father, twenty-five, in the same suit
    Of Genuine Irish Tweed, his terrier Jack
    Still two years old and trembling at his feet.

    My mother, twenty-three, in a sprigged dress
    Drawn at the waist, ribbon in her straw hat,
    Has spread the stiff white cloth over the grass.
    Her hair, the colour of wheat, takes on the light.

    She pours tea from a Thermos, the milk straight
    From an old H.P. Sauce bottle, a screw
    Of paper for a cork; slowly sets out
    The same three plates, the tin cups painted blue.

    The sky whitens as if lit by three suns.
    My mother shades her eyes and looks my way
    Over the drifted stream. My father spins
    A stone along the water. Leisurely,

    They beckon to me from the other bank.
    I hear them call, “See where the stream-path is!
    Crossing is not as hard as you might think."

    I had not thought that it would be like this.
The article gave me a new perspective on this poem. I had thought of the final line as the narrator's surprise at the way that grief affected them. But it could equally well be describing the narrator's experience of their own approaching death.
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