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Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#121

I have a really hard time believing that non-violent crimes should result in a person being locked in a cage. I'd rather see restrictions that limit their ability to do more damage, like when a reckless driver gets their license revoked. Besides, a free person with a job can pay back their debt to society, literally, with money, instead of the rest of us paying their living costs. EDIT: As comments point out, it is a…

What would you like her to do instead of jail time in this instance?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#122

If you steal more than $5K three times in California, you will get 25 years in prison [1], and while I think that's disgusting and detestable, I don't want any elites getting special treatment either, so as to force change in those sentencing guidelines. [1] https://www.kannlawoffice.com/grand-theft.html

Three strikes can be triggered with much less, even petty theft can trigger it. In this example, the defendant received 25 years in prison for his third crime of stealing a pair of socks[0]

"Specifically, the Three Strikes law made it possible for a repeat offender to receive a prison sentence of 25 years to life for a nonserious or nonviolent felony (for example, petty theft with a prior)"[1]

[0] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cruel-an...

[1] https://lao.ca.gov/2005/3_strikes/3_strikes_102005.htm

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#123

If you steal more than $5K three times in California, you will get 25 years in prison [1], and while I think that's disgusting and detestable, I don't want any elites getting special treatment either, so as to force change in those sentencing guidelines. [1] https://www.kannlawoffice.com/grand-theft.html

Three strikes and you’re out isn’t about retribution, it’s about the strong evidence that the specific deterrence and rehabilitation effect of prison will not work on a particular individual.

>rehabilitation effect of prison

There is no such effect in the USA. Prisons are 100% not designed to rehabilitate anyone here.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#124
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla Capability, not feature. I know that isn’t how it’s marketed. But Elon isn’t claiming he has Level 5 right now. Most FSD buyers seem aware they’re paying into a research effort. Fraud requires knowledge and intent. You’re making a good case for a class action lawsuit, i.e. civil action. Not for putting someo…

I have 0% faith the current hardware will ever run a real level 5 solution. It will require better processors, better cameras, LiDAR, more RAM, something.

> have 0% faith the current hardware will ever run a real level 5 solution

Me either! But that’s not fraud. It’s delusion. We don’t criminalise it because the difference between genius and crazy is often only apparent ex post facto.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$TSLA made enough people rich I suppose. I saw some gains myself although not on a large scale. Still don’t like the guy but there’s the old adage “for my friends everything, for my enemies the law”. If $TSLA plummets a crazy amount the tables may turn

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Given Tesla were the first to use a "Giga Press" [1] to mould the chassis, I very much doubt your claim. They innovated significantly. Most car manufacturers use Bosch components all over the place, if that's what you're getting at.

[1] https://europe.autonews.com/suppliers/giga-presses-help-toyo...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#126
post #26

If you steal more than $5K three times in California, you will get 25 years in prison [1], and while I think that's disgusting and detestable, I don't want any elites getting special treatment either, so as to force change in those sentencing guidelines. [1] https://www.kannlawoffice.com/grand-theft.html

> I don't want any elites getting special treatment either... These days I normally roll my eyes and stop reading when I encounter someone saying "the elites" but in this case it is 100% appropriate: she was a member of a wealthy elite, and both deliberately and casually used her connections from the get go.

Did you mean "causally"? Not sure the degree of formality is relevant.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2019 Musk publicly stated Model 3's would support robotic taxi functionality in 2020.

> 2019 Musk publicly stated Model 3's would support robotic taxi functionality in 2020 No evidence these forecasts were made in bad faith. Delusion isn’t criminal. It’s mis-selling in the here and now, in absolute terms, in a way that causes damage, that is problematic.

I don't think Musk deserves the benefit of the doubt. His history of just lying about this sort of stuff (outside of Tesla-related claims) is too long and rich for that.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#128
post #110

The news IMHO is how come she's not yet behind bars?

It's strange isn't it! Does it happen in other countries that you can negotiate when your prison sentence starts? Here in the UK, the judge passes sentence and literally "sends you down" to the cells to start it. (The holding cells in larger courts are physically below the dock where the prisoner is sentenced https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/send-dow... ) Also this rule only seems to apply to rich…

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#129
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't see how government's monopoly on legal violence is relevant here. Assuming bad faith by the manufacturer, how would you "dollarise" damage caused by incorrect sample analysis that caused the death of a patient ?

> how would you "dollarise" damage caused by incorrect sample analysis that caused the death of a patient I don’t personally believe jail should be limited to violent acts for this reason. (My exceptions being corruption and fraud.)

Well OK, how about a case where a convicted fraudster is unable to pay the financial penalty that was imposed on them?
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