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Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

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Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#121

Post by Blackstone4 »

seydor wrote: post #109
ghusto wrote: post #95

On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…

[flagged]

Who do you socialise with in Europe?! I’m a dual national and regularly spend time in 3 European cities and 8+ US cities. To be honest, it’s the US that’s devoid of culture and European culture is very much there and deep rooted.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#122

Post by pyrale »

uejfiweun wrote: post #113
ghusto wrote: post #95

On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…

> rather the way of thinking about the world. As an American who has lived in the US my whole life, it can be tough to see outside the box, so to speak. What parts of the US worldview are being exported? How does it differ with traditional attitudes?

A few examples:

Your far-right political movements, especially religious movements, are actively trying to export themselves to Europe, with varying success depending on the specific trend.

A large part of corporate culture, as people in EU management still long for an idealized version of what exists in the US.

Outside of a few pockets, EU entertainment has more or less completely been wiped out now, so any culture borne by entertainment is mostly US now.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#123

Post by 4gotunameagain »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #117
ghusto wrote: post #95

On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…

Meta-point: Does the pendulum really ever settle in the middle with anything society?

no, but the amplitude of the oscillations decays (maybe exponentially, to keep our analogy fitting?)

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#124

Post by akomtu »

shivekkhurana wrote: post #104
ghusto wrote: post #95

On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…

I watched a Dr. Huberman podcast on dance and language. One of the key takeaways was that speaking and thinking are interrelated. When you are thinking, the same area of the vocal chords are activated but with a lower intensity compared to when you are speaking. This means that what you cannot speak, you cannot think. By prioritising Italian, they are scientifically enabling the population to think more like Italians…

How do you think about music, art or abstract math? I doubt an architect designer speaks his design in his head.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#125

Post by anigbrowl »

hunglee2 wrote: post #14

I think we (Americans and Europeans alike) wholly underestimate how Americanised European culture is becoming. This is an observation rather than a criticism as I don't know whether this is 'good' or 'bad' but it is noticeable phenomena manifest through language, and probably an unintended consequence of the dependency of Europe on US communication technology, leading to the import of US communication styles, politic…

It's a kind of cultural colonialism, albeit reflexive as much as strategic.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#126

Post by SilasX »

hunglee2 wrote: post #61
_vbnz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it was shocking here in Stockholm when there were BLM protests in 2020. It's like people are more involved in US politics than their national politics.

yes indeed. Probably everyone in Stockholm knows 'George Floyd' but would be entirely unaware of the names of locals who have suffered police brutality right there at home

But, I mean, aren't Swedish police much better at respecting the rights of suspects and thus already better at avoiding George Floyd-type situations?

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#127

Post by schroeding »

seydor wrote: post #109
ghusto wrote: post #95

On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…

[flagged]

What is "european culture"? :)

Honest question in good faith, as even some individual EU countries don't have a consistent culture (think e.g. Germany) and at least for my very tiny slice of Europe, the culture and regional customs are still very much alive! :D

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#128

Post by dghughes »

rcme wrote: post #74
version_five wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture can still thrive without being nationalist or traditionalist or whatever you call it. What would people think if there was an american movement to stop using foreign loan words in English because they're diluting our culture? I live in Quebec, Canada, where there is extreme policing of the French language, including various unconstitutional legislation to "preserve" French (the Canadian constitution has an ov…

And yet Qubec is one of the most culturally distinct places in the U.S. and Canada combined. Surely cultural preservation laws are part of that.

We have many French cultures in Canada besides Quebecois. There are Acadian people in The Maritimes they are not Quebecois many forced to flee to Louisiana and are called Cajuns. Non-Quebecois French people in Ontario and the prairies, plus Metis (French+First Nations) on the prairies too.

Other distinct cultures in Canada would be Newfoundland a separate nation for years. Plus all the First Nations across Canada and Inuit in the northern territories and Labrador goes without saying.

You could even add the 500,000 Ukrainians on the prairies a culture going back probably 150 years.

Chinese culture too first starting in the province of BC since probably 1800 older than my own Irish culture the majority who only came here in the mid 1800s to 1870s.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#129

Post by whitemary »

schroeding wrote: post #127
seydor wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What is "european culture"? :) Honest question in good faith, as even some individual EU countries don't have a consistent culture (think e.g. Germany) and at least for my very tiny slice of Europe, the culture and regional customs are still very much alive! :D

It’s the aggregate of culture(s) in Europe. Delineate them as you wish, or not. It’s irrelevant to their point.

I sympathize with concerns of mythologizing culture into existence, as is usually done in the process of nation state formation, but that only succeeds because culture is such a crucial component of human life. This sort of pedantry can get in the way of engaging with its importance.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#130

Post by lxgr »

est31 wrote: post #99
lxgr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy local music, books and games a lot, but legally enforcing "less American culture" seems like a really strange/indirect way of supporting local productions. Why shouldn’t people be allowed to choose what they spend their money and time on? And if you think that there should be more support for their producers to compete with Hollywood budgets: Have you watched the credits of any European film or TV production…

> Also, Netflix has probably done more for both the funding and international distribution of European TV shows than all European streaming services combined. Note that they also get a lot of subsidies from the local governments to film in their location. They are not doing it for charity.

Absolutely, Netflix is not a non-profit by any means.

Still, I think in this case it's a synergy. I don't think something like "Dark" would have existed without Netflix, for example, nor would I be able to watch Belgian, Spanish, Turkish, Japanese and many other productions in Europe or the US that easily.

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