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I Wasn't Paid

iwasntpaid.com

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Re: I Wasn't Paid

#121

Post by unreal37 »

minus1 wrote: post #90
patio11 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to perform (for lack of a better word) a mitzvah for the community, rather than picking out a single abusive customer, use your experience and teach people how to pattern match. Memo to young Rails developers: "I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." has never had a happy ending. (Slight overstatement there, but…

Here's my mitzvah: Don't do work for individuals or very small companies. People are much more reasonable when your fee isn't coming out of their pocket.

I stopped making websites for friends or 2-person companies for this reason. Besides the pain on their faces when I estimate them how much its going to cost, these are the same people who get an idea in the middle of the project and want to add a dancing and singing cat to the home page.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#122

Post by adambard »

minus1 wrote: post #90
patio11 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to perform (for lack of a better word) a mitzvah for the community, rather than picking out a single abusive customer, use your experience and teach people how to pattern match. Memo to young Rails developers: "I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." has never had a happy ending. (Slight overstatement there, but…

Here's my mitzvah: Don't do work for individuals or very small companies. People are much more reasonable when your fee isn't coming out of their pocket.

This is a good rule of thumb, but the best client I ever had was in the general area of legal services. No more than 6 employees, or at least that's how many email accounts I set up, but paid well, without complaint, and always immediately.

I think it comes down to, looking out for clients that focus on cost instead of value.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#123

Post by unreal37 »

scott_s wrote: post #30
unreal37 wrote: post #8

This reminds me of ol' F'd Company. Can't be sued for libel if the story is true.

Yes, you can. You can't lose a libel suit if you're able to prove what you said is true, and it goes to decision. I am not being pedantic. The difference between the two statements is huge, because the amount of time and money it may take you to prove your case could easily bankrupt a person.

Good point.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#124

Post by ww520 »

crag wrote: post #53

One dangerous thing that stands out is this "kill switch". VERY bad idea. Now you are liable for damages. The way to handle this is: When you get the judgement against your "client", slap a lean on his properties equal to the amount owed (and throw in your court costs). That inclues his accounts. All you need is an order from the judge. That's it. That's about all you can do really. Is to go after his assets. Also I'…

You can structure the "kill switch" as temporary licenses that expire after a while. Give them an 1-month license to try out things. Give them the full license upon receiving of full payment. If they want extension, give them another 1-month license.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#125

Post by minsight »

jebblue wrote: post #120
gavingmiller wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an absolutely brilliant talk. And if you do any freelance or contract work you can learn something from it. The quote: 'when you hire a lawyer [to handle contracts] you switch from being a design amateur to a design professional' really spoke to me, and it applies equally to programmers.

I was about to watch it but the page starts out with an F Bomb, if I wanted to aspire to that level of communication I could have stayed in the Navy.

You'd rather not hear profanity than learn how someone managed to eradicate basically all of their client-payment problems?

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#126

Post by lsc »

edw519 wrote: post #62
patio11 wrote: post #57

This is not a way forward. 1). Work with better clients. You can have invoice collection problems at $50k, too, but they're much less likely than at $500 and you have much better options for... escalation methods at that point. 2). If you're not a bank, stop taking on so much credit risk. Businesses can deal with substantially sterner payment terms than you'd think to offer. If your clients balk, see #1. (Thomas has…

Patrick, I completely agree with you, which is why I have never publicized my difficulties with problem customers. But something in my reptilian brain really still likes this. Let me tell you why... You say "Work with better clients." Working with better clients means avoiding the bad ones. Avoiding the bad ones means being able to identify them. Being able to identify them means being warned. It's almost like seeing…

while I agree that calling out unethical behaviour might be best for the industry as a whole, for an individual? calling out someone else is almost always self-destructive. There are two sides to any story, and just like how an insurance company will avoid a customer that gets in accidents even if it wasn't their fault, in business, people often avoid people that get in a lot of disputes, even if they were the wronged party.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#127

Post by EGreg »

How about instead, we have a pool of customers which are GOOD CUSTOMERS but which you in the future might want to move on from, for various reasons? Other developers can pick up the slack -- and some work! They would also be able to have a transition period. This website could even make a small commission from the handoffs.

The best way to avoid bad options is knowing where to find a lot of good ones. Then the others have to prove themselves to you, and you can take them or leave them :)

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#128

Post by rhizome »

jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #116
pavlov wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you can drop the "for smart people" -- the same kind of magazines that blather about horoscopes tend to run lots of stories along the lines of "How to recognize a narcissist".

no, dumb people just use guessing, actual astrology, etc. smart people use "pattern matching" because it makes bigotry (which is a form of guessing) seem smart.

I think you're dancing around the word "discrimination" which is actually a fundamental aspect of thought and language, and is how humans can tell, for instance, the difference between good and bad. Are you saying that people shouldn't have standards?

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#129

Post by gersh »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #98
edw519 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." If only all the assholes were so easily self-identifying. The real problems are the charming, smooth talking, dream clients offering cool projects, top dollar, and paying on time...until they don't and decide to start making your life hell because you're in so deep already. They're n…

I agree with what you said, even though I luckily still hadn't any client like that. I think, though, that a good method is to ask for an advance and maybe payments as the work progresses. I guess bad clients never pay advances.

If they pay on PayPal or via their credit card, they can always do a chargeback.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#130

Post by guelo »

patio11 wrote: post #57

This is not a way forward. 1). Work with better clients. You can have invoice collection problems at $50k, too, but they're much less likely than at $500 and you have much better options for... escalation methods at that point. 2). If you're not a bank, stop taking on so much credit risk. Businesses can deal with substantially sterner payment terms than you'd think to offer. If your clients balk, see #1. (Thomas has…

Sounds like you're threatening to put me on iamachumpconsultant.com while discouraging me from putting you on iwasntpaid.com.

Just like corporations can ruin consumers' credit ratings almost without recourse, the concept here is to ruin these delinquent payer's reputation via a registry everyone can check.

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