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Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

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Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#121
post #10

Does anyone have suggestions for how an individual can feel like they’re actually doing something. I already make donations to organizations that advocate for climate activism, vote at local and national level for candidates what support climate action, and in my own live I try to be conscious about the environment impacts or my lifestyle and purchases. Despite all that I still feel like I'm changing nothing. I still…

Quit your job and go to work full time on climate. Start here: https://climatebase.org

So I looked through Climatebase, and I found it hard to evaluate the companies listed. There's plenty of listings, but no (easy) way to say, "Show me one entry per company, for every company hiring engineering leaders." I either got drowned in "this company has 35 reqs open, so here's 35 entries" or "you've narrowed your filters so much that you only see two companies".

Not quite easy to figure out "Which set of companies are hiring for a role I can fulfill?"

Edit: And within moments, I of course find the URL to do exactly what I want: https://climatebase.org/organizations?l=&q=Engineering%3A+So...

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Figure out how to stop China from building a new coal-fired power plant every week.

Emissions per capita in China are not even that high though.

I didn't realize it was a per capita problem. Maybe we can breed our way out of it so the global emissions per capita will be better and the environment will be happy.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

live like its 1880 buy stuff as if the garbage man does not exist...in 1880 they didn't have trash removal buy one set of clothes you wear pretty much every day until they fall off of you buy a few tools that will last you forever no more disposable anything, remember the trash man doesn't exist wash clothes by hand cook everything yourself, even better grow your own food sorry no biking, rubber is an industrial proc…

sorry no biking, rubber is an industrial process...you walk everywhere just like great grampa did This is ridiculous. If petroleum were used solely to produce bicycle tires and things like seals for appliances, the world would be unimaginably 'greener'. That entire list is just disingenuous, defeatist nonsense.

Biking is demonstrably more efficient than walking. And electric bikes are even more energy efficient than biking.

Sure, manufacturing a bike takes some energy, but there's huge value in people using e-bikes to get everywhere.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#124

Every time there's an article about climate change, it's always about how we're "close to the point of no return." It's felt like the Truck Almost Hitting The Pole GIF[1] for like 10 years now. Has anything actually gone past the point of no return? I'll almost be relieved when we're officially inevitably fucked... at least these "nearly there!" articles won't keep popping up. 1: https://tenor.com/view/truck-crash-te…

Global Warming will be here Two days before the day after tomorrow... We didn't listen.... We Didn't listen......

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#125
These reports are the modern versions of the men walking around the city with sandwich boards proclaiming the end of the world [1]. When you asked them what it was which made them believe so you'd get some rambling story of how the lord had given them signs in their breakfast porridge, ask these climate prophets what makes them believe the point of no return has come and they point at their models which have shown them the end is coming. The difference between these two is that the former at least got a good breakfast out of their medium.

Is the climate not changing then? Of course it is, always has and always will. Do humans not influence the climate then? Of course they do, especially since the industrial revolution. Does this portend a catastrophe? Well... there opinions vary. I'm convinced the changing climate will poise some problems which will be dealt with - just like humans have always dealt with the changing climate. The difference here is that there are more humans - which could make things more difficult - who have more advanced technology - which will make things easier. Assuming cooler minds prevail and the sabre rattling around the world does not lead to a bigger conflict I'm convinced humanity as a whole will make it through whatever changes the climate makes to come out richer and more advanced still.

Would we be better off if we were not as reliant on fossil energy sources? Yes, we certainly would given the pollution - and I'm talking about true pollution here, not CO₂ - involved in the winning and use of these sources. Build more nukes, get serious with fusion, develop a sane form of hydrogen storage, go for it. Not because of the climate boogeyman but because of the above reason as well as the fact that these energy sources are concentrated in some of the more troublesome regions in the world where they have already led to numerous conflicts.

Do I trust climate models? No, I do not and with reason. I did study this stuff a few decades ago when the models were 'less advanced' than they are now. I know of too many fudge factors in these models, too many adjustments which are made to make them follow the observations where the reason for and effect of those adjustments are not understood. From what I have been able to keep up with things are not much different now - apart from far faster computers and more complex models with more parameters and their accompanying fudge factors.

[1] https://therionorteline.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/lead64.j...

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#126

Every time there's an article about climate change, it's always about how we're "close to the point of no return." It's felt like the Truck Almost Hitting The Pole GIF[1] for like 10 years now. Has anything actually gone past the point of no return? I'll almost be relieved when we're officially inevitably fucked... at least these "nearly there!" articles won't keep popping up. 1: https://tenor.com/view/truck-crash-te…

The way to visualize this is that the truck is instead a hundred-mile long train whose engine is in the back and we are all on it in different cars.

The front of the train has already hit the pole. Cars nearest the front are already crumpling, killing thousands and leading millions to migrate farther back into the train.

Meanwhile, those of us fortunate enough to be in cars farther down the line are starting to get cynical about doomsaying because when we look around us, all of our cars seem mostly fine. Sure, maybe we hear a little rattling (food prices, heat waves, more hurricanes every year), but that's just random chance, right?

And, sure, maybe it seems like more and more people keep showing up from cars closer to the front with the luggage and settling into our cars, which are—if we're totally honest—starting to get a little crowded.

But the train is fine, right? We look out the window and the scenery is still trundling by just fine so there's no reason to stop the engine, right?

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the same page: Previous research identified global warming of between 1 degree to 3 degrees Celsius (1.8 to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) as the threshold beyond which the Greenland Ice Sheet will melt irreversibly. We're already at 1.2c above pre-industrial levels. Although it will take a long period of exposure to warm air for the ice to melt, we've already been doing that for a long time. It doesn't seem reasonable…

> It doesn't seem reasonable to say we have hundreds of years to figure out a solution. We've also known about the global warming problem in great detail for well over 50 years at this point. Since then we haven't figured it out but made it worse -- most of our cumulative emissions have happened in just the last 50 years. Why do people still think we can figure this out in a matter of decades without having to drasti…

> Why do people still think ...

Because people haven't come to terms with the fact that humans are not Children of God nor disembodied Cartesian rational calculators, but actually a loquacious and smartish hominid, designed by selection for small group interaction. There is nothing to suggest this species is capable of planet-level cooperation towards a communally-decided end.

Add to that the fact that path-dependent history has placed that species today in a situation where it's organised into huge 17thC mutually-hostile groups ("States"), incapable of anything more than opportunistic cooperation because of their religious and anachronistic founding concept ("sovereignty"). Most people have no idea that this contingent organisation is not the natural and inevitable state of the world, so aren't open to the possibility that it dooms them to sclerotic inability to face today's challenges.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#128
post #10

Does anyone have suggestions for how an individual can feel like they’re actually doing something. I already make donations to organizations that advocate for climate activism, vote at local and national level for candidates what support climate action, and in my own live I try to be conscious about the environment impacts or my lifestyle and purchases. Despite all that I still feel like I'm changing nothing. I still…

Daydream: Chain all the politicians to rocks within a foot of sea level, so they'll actually care. More practically, try to downsize your life and carbon footprint. Avoid the performative virtue of buying lots of "green" things. (Many goods like EV's have a huge carbon footprint to manufacture. And eco-tourism via airplane is right out.) And maybe donate to a non-profit or two that are trying to mitigate the harm tha…

> Chain all the politicians to rocks within a foot of sea level, so they'll actually care.

The policies which are currently in place are not there because of the desires of some handful of politicians but because of the desires of the masses. If you'd banish all the current politicians, their replacements still wouldn't be able to enact policies of rapid decarbonization, degrowth and an actually enforced major reduction in consumption of energy, goods and transportation, because their constituents wouldn't accept that.

Re: Greenland ice sheet is close to a melting point of no return

#129

Every time there's an article about climate change, it's always about how we're "close to the point of no return." It's felt like the Truck Almost Hitting The Pole GIF[1] for like 10 years now. Has anything actually gone past the point of no return? I'll almost be relieved when we're officially inevitably fucked... at least these "nearly there!" articles won't keep popping up. 1: https://tenor.com/view/truck-crash-te…

We already are officially inevitably fucked. If you corner a climate scientist in private and point out the real implications of their work, they might even admit it. The problem is you can't admit that we're officially inevitably fucked in public. If you did that, funding for climate science and climate mitigation would dry up, because there's nothing we can realistically do about it. Trust in governments would evap…

>> Trust in governments would evaporate

I am unclear why anyone ever trusted government or believed government would be the avenue for resolution of this problem

You either understand history, or you trust government, you can not both understand history and trust government..

The second people put their trust in government was the second humanity was fucked. In the best of time Government is like fire, is a troublesome servant and a terrible master.

>the purpose of a government is to keep us all safe

When has that ever been the case... The purpose for government is to provide a framework for non-violent dispute resolution, and to safe guard natural rights and property), and maybe form a national defense force. Not to provide individual safety and security.

>>Currency would lose its value, because it assumes that there will be a future better than the present where you might want to buy things.

No fiat currency actually needs the future to look worse than today to encourage spending today and discourage saving for tomorrow. This is why fiat currency required inflation, and why deflation is feared above all else with fiat currency. You have to have spending today, you have to have people spending in multiples of what they really have in currency (i.e debt spending) and you have to have that in perpetuity.

In short, Fiat Currency is a legal pozi scheme that is destined to fail at some point anyway....

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