There are millions of undocumented workers in the US using fake identities to get jobs. Both major parties support this system. Some Republican interests enjoy the access to dirt-cheap labor. Some Democratic interests want immigrants to be able to find jobs despite it being illegal to employ them. So we end up with a system where employers have no easy way to verify that an employee is who they say they are and has a…
Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
121–130 of 190 posts
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#122Where did they get the kids? Is this trafficking? Terrible parents?
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#123this is why food is cheap people. I used to drive corn and pea combines in high school, and in the farming community it's not uncommon to have kids driving tractors as well (granted this is usually a family run farm). It's likely that the people working in the factories there knew the kids or families and made an exception to allow them to start early (still technically illegal I know). it's not child slave labor, it…
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#124"Under the Fair Labor Standards Act, the department assessed PSSI $15,138 for each minor-aged employee who was employed in violation of the law. The amount is the maximum civil money penalty allowed by federal law." Wow, I knew that labor laws in the US were toothless but to have it spelled out like this is so depressing. A max penalty of ~15k per violation, just bravo team, bravo.
??? - $15k per violation is still quite a bit of money. This is an order of magnitude more expensive than the pennies they saved by looking the other way. The point of the fines is not to force the company into insolvency - if anything, the DOL would rather incentivize companies into compliance with labor laws than squash them and spread bad practices into harder-to-monitor industries.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#125this is why food is cheap people. I used to drive corn and pea combines in high school, and in the farming community it's not uncommon to have kids driving tractors as well (granted this is usually a family run farm). It's likely that the people working in the factories there knew the kids or families and made an exception to allow them to start early (still technically illegal I know). it's not child slave labor, it…
> it's not child slave labor, its kids trying to make money. It's price dumping by abusing children who're happy to have a couple dollars to spend on Fortnite characters or whatever the rage is these days. Pay your workers fairly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/25/us/unaccompanied-migrant-...
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
??? - $15k per violation is still quite a bit of money. This is an order of magnitude more expensive than the pennies they saved by looking the other way. The point of the fines is not to force the company into insolvency - if anything, the DOL would rather incentivize companies into compliance with labor laws than squash them and spread bad practices into harder-to-monitor industries.
$15k/yr is about $7.5/hr based on a 40-hr work week for 50 weeks. If each child on average only worked 15-hr weeks for two years, that's $10/hr. So it definitely doesn't seem like the fee would be "order of magnitude" more expensive than hiring adults. Assuming the kids got paid $7.25/hr... which seems high given that this is an already-illegal penny-pinching operation... that could easily be $10 cheaper than typical…
Instead, they hire contractors for some things, like cleaning. Those contractors start out by hiring illegals with false documentation - which, as I've said before, is defensible as "we didn't know".
Those contractors are small businesses themselves, and their labor practices loosen over time.
Maybe it starts out relatively understandably: someone brings their kid with them and the kid is doing some of the work assigned the parent. Once they've done that a while they (the kid) applies with false documents in hand, already know the job well, and live with other employees of the company so they're likely to be able to make it in.
That's still plausibly deniable by the company. Yeah, they know the kid isn't here legally, and they at least strongly suspect that they're a minor, but they don't really have legal proof of it.
Other families are seeing that one earning income, so they get their children false documents and have them apply. Because this is one of the few places where minors are employed - and both the minors and their parents are _wanting_ the minors to be employed - they have an influx of cheap(er) labor. Wages drop, the adults leave to work elsewhere, and now we have a company employing almost exclusively minors while doing work for a major company like Tyson.
If I had to guess, I'd say that the parents mostly end up working for Tyson while their minor children work for the various contractors employed there.
Finally, I'll point out that "minor" and "child" are basically synonymous from a legal perspective, but not from a social one. It's not at all uncommon for people where I live to work full-time over summers starting at ~14, and part-time during the school year at ~16. That's 100% legal here. In fact... my state offers "hardship endorsements" for driver's licenses that allow minors as young as 14 to drive on their own to and from school or work.
People's lived experiences differ hugely. My oldest daughter is 14, is homeschooled, and is literally begging me to let her work. There are very limited ways I can make that happen at her age, so we're focusing at the moment on entrepreneurship. When she turns 16, she'll have an (almost) unrestricted driver's license and be eligible to legally work lots of places with some limitations. She'll likely end up working in either food service or retail at that point.
I was hauling hay in the summer from 12-16, and that seems way more dangerous than cleaning a slaughterhouse - and yes, FWIW, I've also worked in a slaughterhouse, so that's not a completely uneducated assumption. Hauling hay is mostly a matter of walking/jogging alongside a truck or tractor pulling a trailer through a field, picking up ~50# hay bales, and throwing them up to 10' or so in the air to someone on the trailer to stack them. Once the trailer is full you get to go to the barn, unload them one by one, and stack them to the ceiling. All of this is happening in full sun and ~90-105ºF, and while wearing blue jeans and long sleeves (often flannel!) to protect yourself from the hay. You will absolutely experience heat-related health effects, up to and including passing out in the field if you don't actively stay hydrated.
Given that the above is the status quo for most families here, I would have no problem with my daughter choosing to hose down and clean a slaughterhouse floor at night instead.
So.. yeah. "Minor" doesn't mean "child" in common parlance, and where "child" ends and "young adult" begins varies significantly between region and culture.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#127There are millions of undocumented workers in the US using fake identities to get jobs. Both major parties support this system. Some Republican interests enjoy the access to dirt-cheap labor. Some Democratic interests want immigrants to be able to find jobs despite it being illegal to employ them. So we end up with a system where employers have no easy way to verify that an employee is who they say they are and has a…
"This is such an easy problem to solve" How? If someone uses a fully faked/stolen identity, with a valid SSN / passport # / etc (which every single company is required to check), how do you propose we catch them?
Fine the companies that hire illegal workers. I don't know why so many in this thread have some delusion that the companies 1.) are acting in good faith or 2.) aren't intentionally using illegal immigrants for cheaper labor.
Fine the companies and the problem will solve itself. Another poster in this thread mentioned a case where Tyson coached an illegal immigrant. Illegals wont unionize, demand maternity or workers comp; and if they do, you call ICE and pretend you don't know how they showed up.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#128There are millions of undocumented workers in the US using fake identities to get jobs. Both major parties support this system. Some Republican interests enjoy the access to dirt-cheap labor. Some Democratic interests want immigrants to be able to find jobs despite it being illegal to employ them. So we end up with a system where employers have no easy way to verify that an employee is who they say they are and has a…
According to the article, the fined company was alerted they were employing minors in their hiring system, they just ignored it.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#129this is why food is cheap people. I used to drive corn and pea combines in high school, and in the farming community it's not uncommon to have kids driving tractors as well (granted this is usually a family run farm). It's likely that the people working in the factories there knew the kids or families and made an exception to allow them to start early (still technically illegal I know). it's not child slave labor, it…
Helping out on the family farm is in its own category, in my opinion. For one thing, the parents are probably actually supervising. So they are probably taking some measures to ensure the child is not dismembered. Most parents do have a strong interest in making sure their children aren't wounded or killed. It becomes a different question when we're talking dozens of kids working in a corporate meat processing plant.…
Is it?
Would you feel differently if the kids' parents were working in the same plant, were nearby, and were comfortable with the situation?
To be clear - I don't know for certain that's the case here, but I do have enough knowledge of these plants to know that it's not at all unlikely that that is the case.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
A few years ago in the South, coordinated ICE raids of a bunch of chicken "factories" owned by Tyson netted 800-900 arrests of undocumented employees. Many of them testified that Tyson encouraged and coached them, even provided written instructions on how to deal with various employment/taxation things as someone undocumented. Asked about this at a press conference, and whether there were "any plans to issue fines, o…
I live in the area where Tyson has most of its poultry operations, and I know a few people who work for them fairly well - including a couple who are working there under false identities due to immigration status. Tyson knows. They couldn't _not_ know. They seem to maintain an acceptable level of "plausible deniability" at least, and I've not seen any evidence that they're explicitly allowing it to happen, or even th…
Another potential outcome is that with the price of illegal labor practices increased legal labor would become competitive against illegal labor again. Which would probably increase the price of chicken, but would also mean that those working for Tyson legally would have a living wage again.