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Average Is Over

nytimes.com

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Re: Average Is Over

#121

Post by mason55 »

muyuu wrote: post #44
mtts wrote: post #18

Ridiculous. The solution to average people becoming less relevant in the economy (which I don't dispute, btw) can of course never be to make everyone above average as that is by definition impossible. It's a feel good message for average folk that papers over the truth, which is that average folk that used to make a decent living doing average work will become poor. All of them, eventually. How poor exactly? Well, yo…

The solution is none. There is no "solution" because it, in itself, is not a problem. The problem is that everybody feels entitled to a top 10% salary and many would kill for "their fair share" when nowadays even the lower 10% have their basic needs covered and some left for leisure. The problem is that a society where everybody have similar incomes is somehow fairer, when there is no logical chain leading there and…

Not salary disparity though, as it isn't a problem in the first place.

Salary disparity is very much a social problem. Crime is correlated much more highly to income disparity than it is to income. Even poor-on-poor crime is correlated to overall societal disparity, it's not just rich people getting mugged and secretaries embezzling funds.

Re: Average Is Over

#122

Post by pnathan »

What's usually missed is the value of being a skilled tradesman.

Who fixes your robot?

Who builds your house?

Not everyone is cut out for college, actually, most people aren't.

Re: Average Is Over

#123

Post by noonespecial »

I think he meant "ordinary" not "average". Average has a specific meaning and as many have pointed out, you can't make everyone above average.

What we've got to figure out is how to keep the large mass of ordinaries from being made into Eloi by a combination of welfare states, machine productivity, and wealth disparity.

Or, failing that, find a way to prevent the Morlocks from eating the Eloi when it suits them.

Re: Average Is Over

#124

Post by mike-cardwell »

watty wrote: post #115
mike-cardwell wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come across this "salary disparity isn't a problem" comment every so often and need to call it out. Salary disparity is definitely a social problem. When one person has the money of hundreds or thousands of others, they can wield significant power over them. I have no problem with there being rich people, but I find it obscene that our society allows people to become billionaires.

I've never understood the argument of "allowing" people to become billionaires. Many of these people created things that changed the world. Should they be artificially limited even more on their income?

Yes. Yes they should be restricted. We artificially limit people to protect other peoples freedoms all the time.

Re: Average Is Over

#125

Post by icebraining »

bzbarsky wrote: post #108
Riesling wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you choose to use software instead of employing a person because you prefer the software I think in the long run the software will do a much better job than a person. It's inevitable in my opinion. We are not even a century into computing and look what we already have achieved. > I do not like to think about an automated, antisocial world That is because you define your world as the action of going to work in or…

Some people are in fact doing jobs they're passionate about. What you should really worry about is a world in which a person can't do anything except consume entertainment and goods, because everything else is handled better by machines....

I expect the dichotomy of machine/human to disappeared before that moment comes.

Re: Average Is Over

#126

Post by justincormack »

sskates wrote: post #56
invalidOrTaken wrote: post #52

One question I've had for...a while now. If a) corporate profits are up b) hiring isn't happening, or is seeing a skills mismatch then where exactly are all these profits going? If they're going to capital goods for the company, that just moves the question on down the line. If they're going to shareholders, then what are those shareholders buying? And if it's just sitting in the bank, where is the bank lending it ou…

A lot of companies are just sitting on the cash (most likely in a bank account). Interest rates are very low right now, so there's not much incentive to lend the money out.

Often in treasury bills, as banks are too risky. Which is why treasury bill rates are so low, and the money does not get relent. Since Lehman's banks are not seen as safe and there is no deposit insurance for these large amounts.

Re: Average Is Over

#127

Post by justincormack »

marvin wrote: post #89
yummyfajitas wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the profits were earned overseas, and are being left there. If they bring the profits home to the US, they will be taxed. Essentially, the US is levying a tax on (certain) foreign investment, specifically investment by Google Ireland in Google USA. Additionally, most of the private sector is deleveraging and building up cash reserves to use in lieu of debt financing.

Do you have numbers or references on the deleveraging point? I know that Google, Apple and Microsoft are sitting on vast cash reserves...but is this what is happening in the economy in general? If this is the case, then this is as far as I can tell good news. Debt serves a purpose, but if it causes systemic problems like we've seen in recent years then it should be kept low.

I recommend this paper for some numbers on the US, UK and Spain, and the different sectors.

http://www.mckinsey.com/Insights/MGI/Research/Financial_Mark...

Re: Average Is Over

#128

Post by gyardley »

muyuu wrote: post #94
jnorthrop wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you really think a national healthcare system is a "whacko communist" idea? If you want to debate it's merits please do, but don't resort to petty name calling.

Nope. I actually take a National healthcare system for granted, ideally working under proper scrutiny. I'd rather have what we have here in the UK than what's in place in the US (as far as I know about it). I was talking about this other idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee

It's not a completely wingnut idea. I first bumped into it in Hayek, who was in favor of it and not much of a socialist.

The rationale works like this - given that some less-fortunate members of society will need assistance at some point in their life, and given that 'conservative' != 'asshole' and we don't want to just let them die in the street, we have to provide some form of limited welfare state.

Since we have to provide some form of limited welfare state, what's the best way to do it while preserving as much freedom as possible? We could set up a large government bureaucracy to do this, with rules and regulations and intrusive measurement for determining who can get what, or we could simply periodically cut everyone a small check.

Hayek thought the small check was a lot less harmful than the large bureaucracy. I'm inclined to agree.

It'd be better still if the government could get out of the welfare business altogether and leave it to our individual communities - I certainly don't mind that my synagogue dues are used to help our poorer members, and if my tax bill was lower, I'd have still more to donate. But that would require a cultural shift to make practical - it's a shame, but most people in America no longer belong to small, supportive communities.

Re: Average Is Over

#129

Post by justincormack »

UK-Al05 wrote: post #62
beatpanda wrote: post #26

So we're currently building an economy that the "average person" doesn't have the skills to participate in. OK. So who are we building this economy for, and why?

Consumers. The economy serves the consumers.

But as Henry Ford realized, if the consumer has too low an income he or she cannot afford to conume, so your fctory will be unprifitable.

Re: Average Is Over

#130

Post by quandrum »

pnathan wrote: post #122

What's usually missed is the value of being a skilled tradesman. Who fixes your robot? Who builds your house? Not everyone is cut out for college, actually, most people aren't.

> who fixes your robot?

Who fixes humans? Robots will do this eventually.

> Who builds your house?

Robots here too.

Just because they can't do it today doesn't mean you shouldn't plan on them being able to do it.

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