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Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

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Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#121

Post by pacoverdi »

bmitc wrote: post #61
kevinak wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say in your case your stones probably haven’t been that big. My stones were the worst experience of my life - only IV morphine helped. And even that made the pain just tolerable. Horrible! I do identify with the constant uncomfortableness though.

I don't think size has much to do with it, or at least there is no deterministic correlation to pain. Mine, just removed, was only 3-4mm, but it caused immense pain. The pain was 11/10, such that I cried and vomited from the pain, and the pain pushed through toradol, hydrocodone, and oxycodone. The second hydrocodone IV juice I got was described as 10x more potent than morphine. On my second ER visit in just two days…

Ouch, I had my first one a few weeks ago, 4mm too and this hits home.

3 days before the acute crisis which led me, vomitting with pain, to the ER, the symptoms were weird and not easily attributable to a kidney stone: a few drops of pink urine at first, discomfort more than pain, mostly in the morning after peeing, then almost ok for the rest of the day.

The ct scan showed swelling of the kidney. When I finally ejected the stone (more like peeing black sand) 6 days later, I lost ~2kg over the next 24h.

The medicine that helped with the pain was ketoprofene (and antispasmodics) but 2 doses a day were clearly not enough to cover 24h :(

didn't know about lemon though...

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#122

Post by noduerme »

zadler wrote: post #95
noduerme wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calcium stones run all along the male side of my family too.. and I've had a few. The notion to me that lemonade would be helpful is counterintuitive. Generally we've come to understand that high doses of Vitamin C are part of the problem, because that's been something the men in my family do to ward off sickness - but my father, who took 5000 milligrams of C a day for years, always got the worst stones of all. >> 2.…

I like that they do this in a bar rather than at home

Well, the whole point is not to sit around at home, thinking of the pain.

Call it a weird theory, but I've spent a good part of my life in bars and I've never actually seen anyone die in one. This is reassuring; it means as long as I'm inside a bar, I probably won't die. The moment I hit the sidewalk outside, anything could happen.

When I've gone to bars to pass kidney stones, I make sure to alert and tip the hell out of the bartender before I embark on this kind of thing. I consider it a sort of vulgar hospital. At that point, tipping $50 is basically medical insurance. The last time it happened, I was in Paris; I saw the stone on the doctor's ultrasound. I staggered up the street and a girl I had sort of a crush on was bartending; I just told her the whole story without embarrassment, and she lined up the beers for me and made sure I got a taxi home. I'm pretty sure she would've sent someone to pick me up off the bathroom floor, which is more than you can say about health care in America.

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#123

Post by noduerme »

entwife wrote: post #120
noduerme wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calcium stones run all along the male side of my family too.. and I've had a few. The notion to me that lemonade would be helpful is counterintuitive. Generally we've come to understand that high doses of Vitamin C are part of the problem, because that's been something the men in my family do to ward off sickness - but my father, who took 5000 milligrams of C a day for years, always got the worst stones of all. >> 2.…

> 5000 milligrams of C a day for years Vitamin C supplements are synthesized from fermentation products of corn and wheat. [0] A single lemon contains about 32 milligrams of Vitamin C, along with many other things. This study showed that it's lemon extract, not vitamin C alone, that improves kidney stones. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24258144/

Yeah, I'd assume it's something in lemons that has the absolute opposite effect of Vitamin C, if it breaks up stones. I believe on strong circumstantial evidence that vitamin C contributes to them, so whatever lemons have, my dad should've squeezed more of it.

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#124

Post by Enginerrrd »

1letterunixname wrote: post #99
nrau wrote: post #5

I got my first and so far only (fingers crossed!) kidney stone five years ago. At that time I started drinking lemon juice with hot water to start each day before consuming anything else, and it has so far kept any recurrence of kidney stones away. I really do believe the lemon juice has been key for me in this regard, and it is in any case a very healthy thing to do daily anyways (known and practiced by other cultur…

You're going to erode your teeth enamel like that. Hot water has nothing to do with it. Timing has nothing to do with it. Citrate and water increase; oxalate, protein, and cola decrease are generally important. Also, being endocrinologically stable is important. See a urologist because they form silently again and again. Unless you have x-ray vision, it's impossible to know their status.

>You're going to erode your teeth enamel like that.

Honestly, this gets repeated a lot, but I've yet to see literature that shows this is true. It is true that you can show erosion under ridiculous conditions that don't mirror the real world like immersing loose teeth in acidic beverages for days. But I've yet to find evidence that drinking unsweetened acidic beverages like carbonated water or water with a little lemon juice has any meaningful impact on tooth decay. Over and over again the actual epidemiology shows an association between sugar / processed carbohydrates and tooth decay.

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#125

Post by Sindisil »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #111

Question to stone-havers, wouldn't using tamsulosin/flomax make sense when trying to pass stones. I'm surprised to see only one mention to this in all the comments here. Perhaps it's not as helpful as I'd expect?

I do usually take Tamulosin when a stone starts playing road music. It seems to help, especially with middling and larger (say 4mm and up) but not as much as upping my liquid intake even more than usual. I've passed several without it and many with, and judge it to be worth keeping on hand.

Biggest thing for me has been to try to avoid additional formation (though I know from my annual imaging that I have at least 6 or 7 of my little buddies laying in wait). Citric acid, increased liquid intake, reduced intake of high oxalate foods (and/or taking calcium citrate or high calcium foods at the same time), trying not to hold my pee unnecessarily, and a prescription for hydrocholorothiazide have together greatly reduced my kidney stone formation. I got by with only a couple little ones last calendar year, and only one middling one (~4mm) so far this year.

Don't take any of that as medical advice, of course.

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#126

Post by pvaldes »

In some types a lithotrity machine can do wonders. Is basically being bombed with ultrasounds while taking a long bath, so could even be doable to DIY at home if you have some maker skills and for some reason can't go to a doctor.

The main concern should be to take serious care of not being electrocuted, put the speaker far and out of the water, protect your ears and assure that everything is well isolated. Using a 12 volt car battery as source of power could add a lot of safety.

Read a book for some time and then urinate into a piece of cloth in a strainer to see if it collects some sand. Rinse and repeat after some resting days for several weeks.

Or you can go to a discotheque

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#127

Post by MrLeap »

noduerme wrote: post #122
zadler wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that they do this in a bar rather than at home

Well, the whole point is not to sit around at home, thinking of the pain. Call it a weird theory, but I've spent a good part of my life in bars and I've never actually seen anyone die in one. This is reassuring; it means as long as I'm inside a bar, I probably won't die. The moment I hit the sidewalk outside, anything could happen. When I've gone to bars to pass kidney stones, I make sure to alert and tip the hell ou…

This is a heartwarming story that's given me a lot to think about.

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#128

Post by matheusmoreira »

1letterunixname wrote: post #98
noduerme wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calcium stones run all along the male side of my family too.. and I've had a few. The notion to me that lemonade would be helpful is counterintuitive. Generally we've come to understand that high doses of Vitamin C are part of the problem, because that's been something the men in my family do to ward off sickness - but my father, who took 5000 milligrams of C a day for years, always got the worst stones of all. >> 2.…

This isn't a forum for unprofessional, unproven medical advice.

I've seen many actual doctors here.

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#129

Post by el_don_almighty »

Pasteurized lemon juice or fresh squeezed?

For example, when tenderizing meat with pineapple or lime, only fresh squeezed retains the enzymes that break down connective muscle tissue. Cans of pasteurized fruit or juice have no effect.

I wonder if this effect requires the same fresh source.

Re: Lemon-derived nanoparticles block the progression of kidney stones

#130

Post by throwanem »

throwanem wrote: post #30
nrau wrote: post #5

I got my first and so far only (fingers crossed!) kidney stone five years ago. At that time I started drinking lemon juice with hot water to start each day before consuming anything else, and it has so far kept any recurrence of kidney stones away. I really do believe the lemon juice has been key for me in this regard, and it is in any case a very healthy thing to do daily anyways (known and practiced by other cultur…

I'm tempted to start taking a tablespoon or two of lemon juice in my morning orange juice - should be pleasant enough, as I like tart flavors anyway.

...maybe not that tart, though.

In fairness, I keep the stuff around mainly for cocktails, but if Kingsley Amis is any example, having one of those every morning will certainly cause me many more problems than it's at all likely to solve.

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