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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#121

Post by vuln »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #45
filmgirlcw wrote: post #37

I’m not defending this, but after 15 years, I don’t see the point in complaining. We complain (rightfully) about the amount of crap in the App Store and Apple's capricious review policies that don’t stop the scammers, but for better or worse, the $99 fee IS a barrier to entry that I would argue has made the iOS ecosystem better than Android. I’ve been paying $99 a year for early access to iOS betas and for my own tes…

[flagged]

If BMW started the heated seat subscription over 15 years ago, would people still be complaining today?

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#122

Post by coliveira »

mmastrac wrote: post #78
phkahler wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The arguments for paying for review, distribution, advertising, search, etc feel so disingenuous when the company is worth so much money and these apps are contributing to its bottom line. No, they are not. We are talking about hobby apps and maybe free ones. Those don't contribute to their bottom line. We might say they contribute to the platform. For hobbyist they make it viable. But for paying customers maybe t…

This is the same disingenuous argument. The $99/year isn't preventing junk from showing up on the AppStore, and a lack of $99/year payments doesn't make the Google Play store a dumpster fire of garbage apps. [1] The AppStore is currently filled with low-value junk published by people paying $99/year (1.8 million apps out there, of which most outside of the top X lists are terrible). Will hobby apps really decrease th…

Exactly, the real reason that people don't want to realize is that the $99 is not to keep garbage out of the store, it is to take the $99 per year from each developer in the world.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#123

Post by eddieroger »

smoldesu wrote: post #104
massysett wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't view the iPhone and iPad as "computers" or "personal computers" any more than I view my cable TV set-top box or Sonos speaker that way. Both are very powerful devices with Linux operating systems. But I don't expect to be able to program them. The iPhone is an appliance that can download "apps" that Apple permits. When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

It doesn't, but that's not the point. Apple shares that viewpoint and they set the rules. If you want a tablet you can run Linux on, then the iPad isn't the tablet for you.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#124

Post by rglover »

smoldesu wrote: post #104
massysett wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't view the iPhone and iPad as "computers" or "personal computers" any more than I view my cable TV set-top box or Sonos speaker that way. Both are very powerful devices with Linux operating systems. But I don't expect to be able to program them. The iPhone is an appliance that can download "apps" that Apple permits. When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

It creates the potential for unexpected support consequences and brand destruction.

For example, say I run a sketchy reseller operation that buys old or refurbished Apple equipment and load an iOS-ish/macOS-ish custom unix (and then falsely market it as an "Apple product"). For all intents and purposes, it may look exactly like an official Apple OS, but it isn't.

The untrained eye is oblivious to the differences and now, assuming the "sell" was that that person got an Apple device for cheap from some random seller, Apple now has the potential burden of supporting that. Considering their potential market is in the millions who might be duped by this, by allowing this one little change, they just introduced a support burden that nukes their profit.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#125

Post by flohofwoe »

mmastrac wrote: post #87
unxdfa wrote: post #84

I’m running two hobby apps and I don’t have a paid developer account. You can sign a limited number of apps without one. There’s a hell of a lot of misinformation in here and the original post.

Don't you have to re-upload the app every week as this article is complaining about?

There was a somewhat recent change that "on-device testing" only requires a regular Apple Id account (and you even get the privilege to report bugs for free to Apple! /s).

Only works for up to 8 apps per device installed at the same time (which sucks for my case because I have dozens of small demos to test).

But yeah, those "on device testing apps" expire pretty fast if I remember correctly (I mostly just debug on the simulator these days).

Also see (search for "Benefits and resources": https://developer.apple.com/support/compare-memberships/

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#126

Post by fulafel »

rcstank wrote: post #66
fulafel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people in the global view don't have that kind of disposable income. Apart from low income economies also the disadvantaged, teens/kids, etc.

It's $8.25/mo if you save up for it each year.

Let's say you are from Egypt (~$1400 median income) or South Africa (~1600). You have already saved for a long time to get a used iPhone for $100. It might be possible with enough effort but you can't say it's not a big barrier.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#127

Post by smoldesu »

gretch wrote: post #119
smoldesu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

My philosophy is that Apple can do whatever they want (as long as legal and ethical). They made a thing, and you bought it. Why would anyone with a bent on free computing walk into what they know to be a closed ecosystem. Just buy an Android phone. It’s like flying to a foreign country and expecting everyone to English to you imo…

Apple can absolutely do whatever they want, until regulators block them off from the market for anticompetitive or anticonsumer practices. Then their profit motivation kicks in again, and they have to lick boots until they're on the government's good side again.

If you want an adversarial narrative between Apple and the people, you'll find no greater supporter than me. Europe seems to disagree with Apple's philosophy though, so maybe it's time they reassess their opinions.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#128

Post by PedroBatista »

The relationship some developers have with Apple should be a case-study with multiple PhD thesis in psychology.

Not even in movies I've seen so many cases of children desperately chasing their emotionally unavailable parent.

Apple is a trillion dollar company, it's the "parent" who sells you +$40 dongles for everything. "Hobbies" are only good if they make them money AND doesn't increase their risk or any liability.

I've seen this developer-Apple dynamic at least since the late 90s. "Daddy Apple" was more available back then, but it's wasn't like it cater that much to the hobbyist-developer community ( unless we see the past with rose-colored glasses ).

The App Store is a multi-billion dollar business, like a moderately high-end mall, there is no place for hobbies in that world.

I hope for a time when developers understand this and stop feeding Apple execs for free. Ironically that would be the day Apple would be "nicer" to them.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#129

Post by vbezhenar »

Actually Apple made it possible to develop hobby apps for free few years ago. So I don't really agree to this article. I don't know if they cared about hobbyists or just new developers but you can write software and run it on your iPhone for $0. Yes, it'll work for a week but few years ago you couldn't do it at all.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#130

Post by x0x0 »

smoldesu wrote: post #52
outime wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that not being able to develop hobby apps is a side effect of that policy, not that the policy's main aim is to prevent hobby apps from being developed.

The side-effect is in the eye of the beholder. Apple claims they lock down the App Store for security, and a convenient "side effect" is that their stranglehold on platform transactions makes them upwards of $80 billion annually. From the perspective of the shareholder, it's obvious that Apple's motivations are more driven more by profits than ensuring universal security. Regulators worldwide agree!

It's not obvious at all.

All of us who still have to help people in our lives -- particularly elderly parents -- are very grateful for a platform where the users are not expected to be sysadmins. Which they will do quite badly. We have a 25+ year history of trying to get most people to not install random spyware/crapware/viruses on their computers, and it's fair to say the results are a complete and total failure. Except for ios and sometimes android.

Which is not to justify Apple's attempt to tax every dollar that flows through their platform, but something can be two things at once.

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