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Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

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Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#121

Post by Dalewyn »

askvictor wrote: post #110
Dalewyn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How is nuclear fuel any different in this respect? We're already talking about what we will do once major reserves of coal and oil run dry. It's obviously not going to happen any time soon, maybe even not this century, but I'm not aware of similar sentiments being thrown around about nuclear fuel such as uranium and plutonium. Nuclear power also does not belch out greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere unlike coal an…

The original argument was that Japan imports all of its energy; nuclear is no different to fossil fuels in this regard. You raise plenty of other interesting issues, but don't address the question of energy sovereignty.

It reduces the amount of import necessary for a given amount of power and shifts geopolitical reliances around (hopefully to more favorable entities).

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#122

Post by simondotau »

emodendroket wrote: post #97
snovv_crash wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if it was a non-venomous snake, and all the experts tell you it is a non-venomous snake, and it is literally safer than a pet dog. Would you still be scared of handling it because of a pathological fear of snakes? In what way is that adaptive and helpful in a modern era of scientific knowledge?

Well, the setup was you told me people should feel embarrassed to be scared whether or not they support nuclear power. If they accepted the premise you are setting up now — that it is utterly risk-free — why wouldn’t they support it?

> the premise you are setting up now — that it is utterly risk-free

That is a fairly egregious misrepresentation of what was said. And it completely misses the point of the (rather good) analogy.

Economies need energy. The only question that matters is whether a proposed source is overall better or worse — per unit of energy — than the status quo or the fallback. Remember, the choice isn’t nuclear power or no nuclear power. The choice is to utilise nuclear power or continue burning coal/oil/gas.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#124

Post by looping__lui »

nailer wrote: post #93
looping__lui wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, except that political decision making doesn’t reflect public opinion. The majority wants nuclear power back.

I believe you but have a citation? Thanks.

https://www.rnd.de/politik/atomkraft-in-deutschland-lautzeit...

https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/atom-umfrage-41-prozent-der-...

https://www.tech-for-future.de/atomkraft-umfrage/

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#125

Post by cinntaile »

mpweiher wrote: post #119
emodendroket wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nuclear power requires more vigilance or competence from the people running it to avert disaster then that's a real demerit.

It doesn't. Fukushima clearly demonstrated this. 1. The reactor was an old design, not really considered safe 2. Known deficiencies were not fixed 3. Despite the regulations saying they needed to be fixed 4. Regulations that were also found to be insufficient So really colossal screwups piled on top of each other. And so an accident happened. Explosions happened. Without the containment of more modern plants. And yet…

You clearly prove his point, more vigilance and/or competence is needed.

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#126

Post by looping__lui »

lucb1e wrote: post #69
looping__lui wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of Germans want nuclear power back. But politicians don’t want to. Green party has always been against nuclear power. It’s their ideology. And the Merkel’s party who shut them down (CDU) and changed their mind now is no longer on power. German politics bas been ideological madness for the past 18 years or so…

> The majority of Germans want nuclear power back. Not the ones I talk to. It's not like they're energy or nuclear experts, working in a security consultancy, but they're also not uneducated or unfamiliar with looking things up on the internet. Every single one of them will, when directly asked, say "yeah okay coal first but then nuclear should close too!". Not a mention of the reliance on gas (until one year ago, of…

Germany cannot rely on renewables entirely. It is not possible. You need to have coal/gas or nuclear for the base load. Gas is out and coal is harming the environment. Germany’s “greenest” day in electricity was producing more CO2 than France’s worst day in 2022.

I know that there is a decent amount of well-educated highly paid individuals in Germany that just don’t feel like facts and data for some topics. The Green party is very popular with the “rich and affluent” that “greenwash their conscience”.

Majority is pro nuclear for a while now:

https://www.rnd.de/politik/atomkraft-in-deutschland-lautzeit... https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/atom-umfrage-41-prozent-der-... https://www.tech-for-future.de/atomkraft-umfrage/

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#127

Post by cinntaile »

cbmuser wrote: post #77
emodendroket wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology thereof. The meltdowns at Fukushima #1 could have been completely avoided had the government of the time not been a bunch of worthless fools (hint: TEPCO wanted to scuttle the reactors before they melted down). Surely there is no reason to believe that couldn't happen again.

The reactors in Fukushima and their protection against flooding and cooling failure would have never passed German safety standards. Japan’s nuclear safety standards were way too lenient before the Fukushima accident happened. All the changes that were implemented in Japan after the disaster have been standard in Germany for decades such as hydrogen recombiners, bunkered emergency generators and a filtered containmen…

It's quite amazing how many accidents happen on a daily basis that could have been prevented. How come we don't live in this platonic world?

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#128

Post by looping__lui »

wewxjfq wrote: post #61
looping__lui wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of Germans want nuclear power back. But politicians don’t want to. Green party has always been against nuclear power. It’s their ideology. And the Merkel’s party who shut them down (CDU) and changed their mind now is no longer on power. German politics bas been ideological madness for the past 18 years or so…

Accusing the Greens of being ideology driven when they have shown to be pragmatic is a joke. Not sticking to any ideology is the reason their politicians top the popularity polls. And wanting something back is one thing, getting something back another. If you want nuclear power back, you must build new plants - good luck, it will only take 20 years! The Green-led BMWK explained in detail the many real hurdles that co…

The Green party is the third/fourth most “popular” party in Germany slightly ahead or en par with the AfD (https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/). I will not comment on the incompetence of the Habeck (Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Climate Action). It’s cringe what he states publicly and his incompetence is beyond comprehension.

There is no “green-sustainable” alternativ to nuclear in Germany. The only alternatives are relying on coal or deindustrialisation. Not sure whether gas will be a viable option going forward.

Take a look at Berlin - the capital is a sh*t show of incompetence and failure - funnily enough they can only survive thanks to the payments from the much frowned upon states that have conservative parties in power and a positive economy…

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#129

Post by looping__lui »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #96
wewxjfq wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accusing the Greens of being ideology driven when they have shown to be pragmatic is a joke. Not sticking to any ideology is the reason their politicians top the popularity polls. And wanting something back is one thing, getting something back another. If you want nuclear power back, you must build new plants - good luck, it will only take 20 years! The Green-led BMWK explained in detail the many real hurdles that co…

When you have party refusing nuclear power plants out of fear from radiation and then same party agrees with extending coal mines and coal power plant, which are spitting radioactive waste around environment in uncontrolled manner from ash, then they are purely driven by anti-nuclear ideology.

Well in all fairness - deindustrialisation and a communist-like economy are probably also a very popular third alternative for them…

Re: Japan adopts plan to make maximum use of nuclear power

#130

Post by adrianN »

Dalewyn wrote: post #25
ycuser2 wrote: post #3

As a German this is quite bizzare to me. Here, our politicians take Fukushima as an example why we should stop nuclear energy. People are scared of nuclear energy. And now Japan goes max nuclear.

Because it makes no sense to not go nuclear. For one: Japan has no natural resources. Fuel for power must be imported. Materials for solar panels (or the panels themselves) must be imported. Nuclear is by far one of the most efficient /and/ effective forms of power generation humanity currently has. For two: Fukushima was a result of human incompetence, nothing to do with the reactor itself or nuclear technology ther…

The problem with nuclear is that it's very expensive and new nuclear plants take forever to build. Japan has lots of solar and wind power potential, but renewables are not very compatible with nuclear power for economic reasons.
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