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Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

matduggan.com

121–130 of 279 posts

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#121

> Imagine you had a dog... Imagine that instead of a dog, it's an adult who makes their own choices and gets paid money, and who signed a contract where the terms of employment were spelled out very clearly..

the outside dog doesn't fight back. and neither do the dogs still inside. They all deserve it.

Companies respond to consequences.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#122
post #85

I think the crappy thing here is because upper management wants to plan a layoff in extreme secrecy, they put themselves in the position of not being able to consult with the parties that have the most context. The cuts end up being crude and poorly targeted because of this secrecy. Because the assumption is that an employee who is being laid off, or thinks they may be laid off, becomes a liability immediately, no kn…

This is not true at all in companies that know how to do layoffs. Layoffs in mature companies consult most of the management hierarchy and even many senior ICs and in addition engage the strategic planning teams to steer resources as needed.

That Google, the king of data driven, is flagrantly incompetent on this front is pretty funny, though.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#123
> A common argument I've heard is "well ok, maybe layoffs don't help the company directly, but it is an opportunity to get rid of dead weight". Sure, except presumably at-will employers could have done that at any time if they had hard data that suggested this pool of employees weren't working out.

I'm guessing letting an individual go carries higher risk of a wrongful termination suit than a bulk layoff, so there is still an incentive to mask performance-based decisions with economic justifications.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#124

The default state for a company is to produce a yearly layoff. This has been dramatically reduced since gen y hit the work market because they were leave the company instead of stressing and they were important as they were bringing the tech power to the industry Now they are getting old and there is no short of people to work on tech so the cycle restarts. Honestly if I do get in a company that practices this I will…

It had nothing to do with genY tech acumen, which is lower the previous crops on average due to weakening curriculum standards and a lack of experience with technology in any deep way, it was the firehouse of free capital and a “starve the competition” model employed by the FAANG constituents that it helped fund.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#125

Well it depends on the kind of business you are running. It seems that nowadays software companies mostly work on modularized toy problems that new grads can solve effectively. If you go to the chemical industry that is not the case. Layoffs in senior personnel will bite you within months.

Most of the people working on glue code are already at risk to job migration to HCL, Wipro etc.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are all workers, we are the working class whether we are educated or not. The capital owners want the working class to fight amongst themselves because it allows them to continue enriching themselves off the backs of the working class. Even if you own some stocks or have a 401k, if you depend on a salary to pay your bills then you are a worker

Actually there are different levels of working class. A guy earning $18k per year working in retail isn't exactly in the same boat as the manager of the store making $80k a year.

That was a story made up by capital owners to keep the working class fighting amongst itself. The reality is that anyone who works for a wage is being taken advantage of

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#127
post #85

I think the crappy thing here is because upper management wants to plan a layoff in extreme secrecy, they put themselves in the position of not being able to consult with the parties that have the most context. The cuts end up being crude and poorly targeted because of this secrecy. Because the assumption is that an employee who is being laid off, or thinks they may be laid off, becomes a liability immediately, no kn…

I think this is an ideal, and new, cheery CEOs may espouse and even practice this to an extent. But, then I have seen these same owners become cynical after 1 or 2 bad apple employees and the demeanor shifts.

Once a company grows beyond a certain threshold of employees, then the probability of having hired saboteurs increases.

This is where social safety nets could play an important role in incentivizing folks to not worry, thus reducing the likelihood that they attempt to sabotage a company on their way out.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#128
post #85

I think the crappy thing here is because upper management wants to plan a layoff in extreme secrecy, they put themselves in the position of not being able to consult with the parties that have the most context. The cuts end up being crude and poorly targeted because of this secrecy. Because the assumption is that an employee who is being laid off, or thinks they may be laid off, becomes a liability immediately, no kn…

Makes me wonder why employees are expected to give two weeks notice when they choose to leave, write docs detailing knowledge transfer, etc. Why can't we just "disappear", as if we were laid off?

Well you generally can't do that in Europe. I normally have at least one months notice which I spend documenting and explaining stuff to the people who'll be taking over.

That being said, I got laid off this summer (US style no more need for your services, all access revoked) and it absolutely sucked.

Additionally, there's a lot of really pissed off Big Tech employees, and it's gonna be interesting to see what happens as a result of these (almost entirely unnecessary) layoffs.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#129
post #85

I think the crappy thing here is because upper management wants to plan a layoff in extreme secrecy, they put themselves in the position of not being able to consult with the parties that have the most context. The cuts end up being crude and poorly targeted because of this secrecy. Because the assumption is that an employee who is being laid off, or thinks they may be laid off, becomes a liability immediately, no kn…

This is not true at all in companies that know how to do layoffs. Layoffs in mature companies consult most of the management hierarchy and even many senior ICs and in addition engage the strategic planning teams to steer resources as needed. That Google , the king of data driven, is flagrantly incompetent on this front is pretty funny, though.

With all things, in order to be good at something, one must practice it. Being Google's first rodeo, it's not surprising that it's been executed in a less than stellar manner.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#130

I think Amazon, Google, and Meta workers should band together and get funding to start competitors to these companies. If there were some smart investors, that would be a great way to start a new company.

That is what happens. That is the cycle. Also most will fail and the ones that don’t will be bought by the monoliths.
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