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New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

joelonsoftware.com

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Re: New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

#121

Post by danjvowelsn »

zamansky wrote: post #113
blueprint wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a guess but he's been teaching for long enough that each year he probably keeps an eye out for concepts that he can use during Halloween and then works on the ones he judges to be the best. Some say brilliance is often a product of hard work over a long time.

actually, I generally procrastinate until early October and than something hits me.

Hey, it's Mr. Z! You know, all of the tools that I use every day (i.e., Python and Emacs) I first learned from one of your classes. If it weren't for you, I would never be where I am today.

Thanks for being an awesome teacher, and congrats on this new project!

Re: New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

#122

Post by zwilliamson »

It is too bad our country doesn't care about education. All I hear about on the morning news in California is Jerry Brown making cuts to public spending on education. My wife and I put a lot of time into tutoring our daughter (1st grade) and it would be nice to know that by the time she reached the secondary education level that an option like a Software Engineering focus was available to her. I will try to stay positive and vote for government officials who support creative and proactive educational systems like this.

Re: New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

#123

Post by ericd »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #108
ericd wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot know what you will find useful in the future. A broad education helps inform your decisions on a huge variety of subjects, even without realizing it. Learning only what you think you'll need for your future profession is a really terrible idea.

With certainty, no. So what? The right question to ask is this: Is P(need subject X) x (cost of not knowing X) Since the cost of learning X tends to be high (at least if you learn it in school), and the cost of not knowing it is very often nothing but the cost of learning it + cost of delays, this inequality is very often not satisfied.

I'm not talking about certainty. I'm saying that humans are impossibly bad at figuring out the first two variables in that equation, and only slightly better at figuring out the cost of learning.

And the opportunity cost of not knowing things can be staggering.

If you just want to maximize your wealth, maybe that approach is workable, since there are more tangible numbers involved, but if you're optimizing for happiness, it's much, much harder.

Re: New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

#124

Post by borski »

As a Stuyvesant alum and a supporter of Z (a.k.a. Mike Zamansky), I can't wait to see what Z does here.

While Stuy was immensely fulfilling and I learned a lot, it was not thanks to the general history and drafting classes. While those were (sometimes) interesting, it was the fact that I was no longer bored as I was in JHS and got to take subjects that allowed to me excel and "stretch my brain," for lack of a better term. Those were limited to my CS classes (Z's classes), the math classes, and psychology.

The CS courses I took at Stuy were on par with, and occasionally better than, some of the courses I took at MIT. At the very least, it prepared me to do very well at MIT and allowed me to take more advanced courses.

If it hadn't been for Z, I know for a fact I would have been significantly more bored in HS and probably wouldn't have done as well. Being a part of the 'Z-Team,' as we affectionally called the network team at Stuy (yes, we were lucky enough to have a network team; sadly, due to the roadblocks placed in front of Z, I'm not even sure this exists anymore) was easily the best experience of my academic career up until that point, and one I still fondly look back upon.

I truly can't wait to see what Z does with a bit of freedom to build what he's been trying to build for over 10 years.

Re: New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

#125

Post by borski »

danjvowelsn wrote: post #121
zamansky wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually, I generally procrastinate until early October and than something hits me.

Hey, it's Mr. Z! You know, all of the tools that I use every day (i.e., Python and Emacs) I first learned from one of your classes. If it weren't for you, I would never be where I am today. Thanks for being an awesome teacher, and congrats on this new project!

I have to echo this. I learned emacs, python, scheme (and then elisp, and then lisp), linux system administration, and assembly all as direct results of either Z's classes or being on the ZTeam and being pushed to learn more. Most of what I do now on a daily basis stretches directly back to those days.

So thanks, Z. :)

Re: New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

#126

Post by mjwalshe »

spitfire wrote: post #116
mjwalshe wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not according to Ross Brawn (you know the Best car designer in the world) - He and Mercedes have gone on the record that the CS grads are hopeless as they don't know the mathamatics to do CFD. Though the last time I used my Mech side was to point out to an engineer in the 4th largest Civil Engineers that he had used the wrong equations for a bridge design.

Do you have any links to his comments? I agree with him (Most ruby "hackers" couldn't write a single line of code for an F1 car), and feel they also don't have enough soft skills, I'd like to see his view on the matter.

It was one one of the pieces about CS education in the Guardian - ill dig it out if i can find it tomorow

Re: New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

#127

Post by mathattack »

My 2 cents on the "too specialized" arguments...

1 - In high school, the people who take multiple CS subjects tend to be intellectually curious, and good at many other things. The same folks who took AP CS with me also took AP European history. I suspect it will be similar here.

2 - Similar to what folks say about Stuyvesant, I don't think there will be a crowding out effect of other subjects.

3 - If done right, the teachers can connect many other subjects to computer science: Philosophy, Mathematics, the Scientific Method... This can make those topics more interesting, not less.

4 - The rigor of learning to program is applicable in many other fields. Computer Science grads frequently go into other fields precisely because of this. This diminishes the "Let's fix the software engineering deficit" argument, but it's true that CS as a major signals ability above and beyond programming.

If I had grown up in NYC, I would have done anything to go to this school. I am glad that my children might have the opportunity to go to a place like this if they so desire.

Re: New York City gets a Software Engineering High School

#128

Post by spitfire »

mjwalshe wrote: post #126
spitfire wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any links to his comments? I agree with him (Most ruby "hackers" couldn't write a single line of code for an F1 car), and feel they also don't have enough soft skills, I'd like to see his view on the matter.

It was one one of the pieces about CS education in the Guardian - ill dig it out if i can find it tomorow

Did you ever dredge up that article? I'm genuinely curious what he had to say.
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