Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

pausly.app

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 154 posts

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#121

Post by anthk »

reaperducer wrote: post #26
enyo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The icon was designed and introduced in 1981. The popularity dramatically increased in the last decade due to smartphones that’s for sure. It’s used by Microsoft, Apple, Youtube... the list goes on. I think it’s not too much of a stretch to say that it is ubiquitous and familiar to users. That being said, it's not the point of the article. There are definitely reasons not to use a hamburger button. But this article h…

The icon was designed and introduced in 1981. "Designed and introduced" on the Xerox Star, which almost nobody used. It was quickly forgotten for 30 years, and only came back into use in 2009, according to Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger_button

This. These younger users thinking the 00's and the 90's where like their child years are pretty much deluded.

And it's odd because you can emulate W98, W2k, WXP and old GNU/Linux distros with damn ease in order to understand that no wm or desktop environment offerred a hamburger menu. And, trust me, lots of people tried zillions on WM's, tons of FVWM2 setups with bizarre configs highly divergent between themselves and no hamburguer button could be found in any of them.

And I can say the FVWM2 and fluxbox/blackbox guys were pioneers on lots of modern GUI trends and current minimalism or paradigm breaking shifts. If you were an UI designer for sure you tweaked FVWM2 and GTK2/QT3 themes to create weird and crazy things such as a dock composed of minified thumbnails created from windows, later done on Windows' Aero taskbar.

Like this:

https://fvwm.sourceforge.net/screenshots/desktops/

2003:

https://fvwm.sourceforge.net/screenshots/desktops/Nuno_Alexa...

2001:

https://fvwm.sourceforge.net/screenshots/desktops/Tavis_Orma...

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#122

Post by runarberg »

myfonj wrote: post #61
mariusor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should still wrap the list in a element to give the browser the context about what the menu represents.

Also, while details/summary support in browsers and other user agents and tools is improving over time, it is still not perfect for ... nearly anything. Sadly. https://adrianroselli.com/2019/04/details-summary-are-not-in...

FWIW This article is almost 4 years old. When it was written 3 years hadn’t passed since Firefox had full support in Firefox 48. Meaning that more time has passed since this article was published then the time between Firefox support and the publication.

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#123

Post by toyg »

myfonj wrote: post #61
mariusor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should still wrap the list in a element to give the browser the context about what the menu represents.

Also, while details/summary support in browsers and other user agents and tools is improving over time, it is still not perfect for ... nearly anything. Sadly. https://adrianroselli.com/2019/04/details-summary-are-not-in...

worth pointing out that the link is almost 4 years old - which is an age, for browsers. Things might be better now (I've not tried).

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#124

Post by thaumasiotes »

Domenic_S wrote: post #57
reaperducer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume you're being down-voted for the use of the word "nipple," by people who don't know that this is an axiom that has been used in the design industry for a very long time.

It's a fun little meme, but it's not all that accurate. Something like half of mothers report latching or other nipple-baby interface problems in some studies [0]. What's more, suckling is a hardwired reflex , not something that's intuited , so the quote also misunderstands the nature of intuition. FWIW I also used to use that quote, until I had a child and saw firsthand [well, second-hand as it was my wife doing the…

> What's more, suckling is a hardwired reflex, not something that's intuited

The fact that suckling is a hardwired reflex is what makes using the nipple intuitive. You use it by doing the same thing you think you should do.

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#125

Post by eyelidlessness »

mgkimsal wrote: post #17
marginalia_nu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah on desktop it's particularly bizarre design choice. Hamburger buttons are designed to conserve pixels on cramped horizontal screens. They make zero sense on a 4k ultrawide monitor.

likely a case of wanting "one design to fit all devices".

I don’t share OP’s gripes with the changes to Wikipedia’s UI, but there are approaches to responsive design (which one might phrase “one design to fit all devices”) that don’t arbitrarily hide useful stuff in a menu where there’s space to accommodate it. And those approaches have only gotten more capable in recent years.

The problem, if there is one, is information hierarchy and deciding whether/how/where to disclose a given information at a given level in that hierarchy and how it’s disclosed. It’s very situationally dependent and probably impossible to please everyone. Optimizing it for the best outcomes for most users is what most good designs do, and they very seldom do the things a lot of vocal HN complaints want (shove everything on screen close together with small text, ie optimize for desktop power users; or make everything infinitely configurable, ie optimize for… idk even what the optimization serves, the same users complain about the web being overly complicated).

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#126

Post by eyelidlessness »

PoignardAzur wrote: post #71
reaperducer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume you're being down-voted for the use of the word "nipple," by people who don't know that this is an axiom that has been used in the design industry for a very long time.

Nope, I downvoted because I don't like it when HN users quote platitudes with no additional context or elaboration to shut down a discussion which is more interesting than the one-line platitude. It's like quoting Einstein's bit about infinite stupidity, or the Dunning Kruger effect. It's dismissive without being insightful.

I like the platitude but I upvoted you anyway because I agree with you that it shouldn’t be used to curtail discussion.

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#127

Post by joshspankit »

wolpoli wrote: post #99
mgkimsal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

likely a case of wanting "one design to fit all devices".

Unfortunately for power users, "one design to fit all devices" is done by designing for mobile first. Desktop is treated as a giant tablet. Hence the large buttons and huge distance between elements.

It’s greatly complicated by how widely variable modern monitors are. Web designers can no longer target px or vw for width and space between elements unless the set a maximum width for the content.

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#128

Post by floitsch »

ladon86 wrote: post #118

Not sure if you're the author, but I'm having an issue signing up for Pausly. After connecting an auth provider, there's a screen that asks for your name, and it's not possible to check the ToS checkbox. The error in the console is: > Cannot destructure property 'supabaseUrl' of 'Re(...)' as it is undefined.

I'm not the author, but I know him personally. I will make sure he reads this message.

Re: Accessible hamburger buttons without JavaScript

#130

Post by jen729w »

detritus wrote: post #12

> "Over the last few decades hamburger buttons have become the de facto standard to expand larger menus on smaller devices. They are so ubiquitous that every user immediately knows what they are when seen in the top left or right corner, which makes them a good user interface element choice." "Last Few Decades"? Eh? A decade.. perhaps? "Every User Immediately"? This is not at all my experience. Perhaps with younger u…

Speaking of which (loosely), if anyone from LinkedIn is reading this your Campaign Manager has one of the dumbest pieces of UI I’ve seen in a long time.

It’s the old ‘three dots signify some sort of button’ pattern. Except these dots hide crucial functionality — think activate your campaign — and just kinda float in the middle of the row, surrounded by other actual buttons, and they don’t even have a border!

My parter figured it out eventually and when she said, hey, I found where that option is … that was a real head-slapping can it be this bad sort of moment.

From LI’s perspective this was days of income they didn’t get from us because we couldn’t figure out how to turn the damned thing on!

Hard to believe how this got through user testing.

Post reply on HN