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The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

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Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#121
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people still want and yell for “affordable housing”. Can’t have your cake and eat it too

Affordable housing has little to do with the cost of building the house.

In Manhattan or San Francisco? Probably not. But in most of the gigantic, sprawling USA, I suspect affordable housing absolutely has everything to do with cost of building a house.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affordable housing is just a zoning issue. The cost of construction is a tiny fraction of the cost of a new house in major metros. The cake you can't have and eat at the same time is: "I want affordable housing" and "I want my house to be a good investment."

That's not even remotely true. Cost of construction is typically 60 to 80% of the cost. In high cost of living areas land is more expensive but so are construction costs.

Could it be that goods and services cost more in high cost of living areas? Could it be that the price of land has second-order effects?

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#123
post #83

Note that this is using a counterintuitive definition for "productivity". Most comments here are taking it to mean that construction projects get less stuff done (foundations dug, concrete poured, etc...), but it's actually measuring it as an economic value in units of "value added per full time worker". That seems to be rather more related to the distribution of capital than work output. If the construction industry…

A plumber can charge $15K to install a new sewer line, both in 2022 and in 1972 (inflation adjusted). However, an increasing fraction of money is likely being spent on lower margin lower productivity "construction". I'm sure faux paint finishes look nice, and they are expensive, but they're not "replace a sewer lateral" expensive. Thus its inevitable the overall market segment will become less productive if it expands.

The "mistake" in the linked article is assuming all construction work is equal and unchanging over those decades where CLEARLY there have been infinite real estate fads over the decades. There's just no way replacing countertops with granite can generate as much financial productivity as sewer work, and the fraction of the market spend on low-profit countertops is vastly higher now.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#124
post #48
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure this is the right answer and calling this "worker productivity" seems a bit harsh. A "Pretty Good House" (book that was on the front page last week) includes insulation above and below the foundation slab, vapour barriers, double studs to break thermal bridges, complex window installation (again thermal bridges), air exchangers and heat pumps with ducts (or mini-splits). New constructions (for cold zone),…

Book may have been on the front page last week but I assure you very very few people in the US have insulation above and below their foundations or incredibly air tight houses.

No, but it's safe to say that has time goes by, more and more people are building houses that way. Which would show up in time to build metrics. I don't know the build code in the US, but in Canada (Quebec) most new constructions are air tight because of government subsidies.

I'd be surprised if Maine, Vermont, New York and the other North-Eastern states don't have something similar.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#125

In this time-period there has been a large-scale introduction of undocumented workers into the construction labor force. They are a quarter of some construction labor categories. Perhaps using undocumented subcontractors may play a role in lower productivity growth (cheap, unstable, and relatively unskilled labor) or maybe just distorting the statistics. https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/...

What’s wild is that the entire concept, as we know it, of “undocumented workers” only existed for the past ~22 years.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#126

Easy. Have them to daily standups, sprint planning every two weeks and a day of retrospective and soon their producticity will be rockin'.

We also need to break the tasks down to smaller units.

*George, instead of just putting up this wall, can you have a ticket and close it for every board you put up?*

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even remotely true. Cost of construction is typically 60 to 80% of the cost. In high cost of living areas land is more expensive but so are construction costs.

There's no way. Most of the value of housing in expensive areas is the land itself, not the cost of the building.

You are wrong. For instance in Southern California the cost to build new house is around $350 per sqft. Building 2000 sqft house is around $700K. House like that may sell for around 1 million. So that would be 70% construction and 30% land.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even remotely true. Cost of construction is typically 60 to 80% of the cost. In high cost of living areas land is more expensive but so are construction costs.

There's no way. Most of the value of housing in expensive areas is the land itself, not the cost of the building.

Most houses aren't built where land is so expensive, so that's nearly irrelevant to the overall cost of housing in the US

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affordable housing is just a zoning issue. The cost of construction is a tiny fraction of the cost of a new house in major metros. The cake you can't have and eat at the same time is: "I want affordable housing" and "I want my house to be a good investment."

> Affordable housing is just a zoning issue. The cost of construction is a tiny fraction of the cost of a new house in major metros. No it is not. Construction costs (material, labor) are sky high even if property costs are as well. Building high-end housing has always been more profitable than otherwise, low-end housing is simply high-end housing 20 or 30 years in the future.

low-end housing is simply high-end housing 20 or 30 years in the future

That was maybe true in the past, but todays exurban sheetrock palaces are impossible to be turned into low-income/entry-level housing. It starts with the zoning requirements - are you really going to divide a 2500 sqft McMansion into a duplex without an epic zoning fight? And then there's the transportation/parking issue.

The real problem is that 1200 sqft entry level housing like it was built in the decade after WW2 isn't made any longer but is urgently needed.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#130

In this time-period there has been a large-scale introduction of undocumented workers into the construction labor force. They are a quarter of some construction labor categories. Perhaps using undocumented subcontractors may play a role in lower productivity growth (cheap, unstable, and relatively unskilled labor) or maybe just distorting the statistics. https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/...

Are undocumented workers factored into the number of employees? I would assume the are excluded from the # of workers in the calculation.

There's no reason they would be excluded. They are getting paid so they'd show up on the books.
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