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ChatGPT scores 80% on SAT reading/writing with collective chain of thought

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Re: ChatGPT scores 80% on SAT reading/writing with collective chain of thought

#121

Post by palata »

logicallee wrote: post #111
palata wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peak denialism. That's a bit condescending. ChatGPT isn't remotely close to "general creative intelligence, problem-solving skills and ability to manipulate abstract thoughts daily". It only pretends, in a pretty impressive way. A bit like you can train your dog to play dead when you point your finger at them and say "bang", but you should not conclude from it that your dog understands the concept of death. > Since…

If you're not getting "general creative intelligence, problem-solving skills and ability to manipulate abstract thoughts daily" you're just not using ChatGPT right. I don't know what to tell you. It's like you are telling me dogs don't really fetch. My dog does. (Where fetch is an analogy for manipulating abstract thoughts.) There is no such thing as "pretending" to fetch, either the thing is bringing back the though…

I am not saying that ChatGPT is not answering your questions, or returning relevant information. It is. But when I enter a question into Google, it also does fetch the relevant information, doesn't it? Why do you say that ChatGPT is "intelligent", and Google is not? Because ChatGPT formulates it in a nice, authoritative way?

Say you ask DeepL to translate a sentence about biology from Spanish to English, and it does it perfectly. Would you say that DeepL understands biology? Or even that it knows the languages like a human does? Or would you rather think that it has a huge database of texts in both languages, and it "just" built its translation based on similar sentences there (somehow cleverly interpolating between its data points)?

Because it "looks like it does" does not mean that "it does". That's how magicians trick you into pretending that they do magic. And that was my point about the dog playing dead. That does not mean that the dog understands that you were pretending to hold a gun, or that it understands that it plays "dead". The dog just "lies on the back" when you point your hand and say "bang", that's it.

> What are the kinds of things you are finding ChatGPT isn't able to understand?

Let me put it this way. Wouldn't you expect from an agent able to show "general creative intelligence, problem-solving skills and ability to manipulate abstract thoughts daily" that it could conduct research on its own? Why can't you say "please solve this mathematical problem: you have the universal knowledge in your database and a lot of compute power. Please send me a summary of your progress every day until it is solved". Or do you actually think that it can do that?

Re: ChatGPT scores 80% on SAT reading/writing with collective chain of thought

#122

Post by pornel »

eternalban wrote: post #115
pornel wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me debating whether AI really understands anything is as irrelevant as asking whether submarines can swim . It performs tasks, and does them in its own way.

The full Edsger Dijkstra paragraph: " The Fathers of the field had been pretty confusing: John von Neumann speculated about computers and the human brain in analogies sufficiently wild to be worthy of a medieval thinker and Alan M. Turing thought about criteria to settle the question of whether Machines Can Think, a question of which we now know that it is about as relevant as the question of whether Submarines Can S…

I'm just a neural network rehashing previous inputs.

Re: ChatGPT scores 80% on SAT reading/writing with collective chain of thought

#123

Post by eternalban »

pornel wrote: post #122
eternalban wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full Edsger Dijkstra paragraph: " The Fathers of the field had been pretty confusing: John von Neumann speculated about computers and the human brain in analogies sufficiently wild to be worthy of a medieval thinker and Alan M. Turing thought about criteria to settle the question of whether Machines Can Think, a question of which we now know that it is about as relevant as the question of whether Submarines Can S…

I'm just a neural network rehashing previous inputs.

How could you possibly know that ..

Re: ChatGPT scores 80% on SAT reading/writing with collective chain of thought

#124

Post by logicallee »

palata wrote: post #121
logicallee wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not getting "general creative intelligence, problem-solving skills and ability to manipulate abstract thoughts daily" you're just not using ChatGPT right. I don't know what to tell you. It's like you are telling me dogs don't really fetch. My dog does. (Where fetch is an analogy for manipulating abstract thoughts.) There is no such thing as "pretending" to fetch, either the thing is bringing back the though…

I am not saying that ChatGPT is not answering your questions, or returning relevant information . It is. But when I enter a question into Google, it also does fetch the relevant information, doesn't it? Why do you say that ChatGPT is "intelligent", and Google is not? Because ChatGPT formulates it in a nice, authoritative way? Say you ask DeepL to translate a sentence about biology from Spanish to English, and it does…

Google search results just search the web and return something already indexed. ChatGPT manipulates abstract thought. (Not always successfully, but more often than you do, based on our interaction so far.)

Yes, you can say "please solve this mathematical problem" and sometimes get a novel working solution that has never been published but is formulated on the spot. Rather than just output text, you can direct its behavior in profound ways, including successfully completing miracle, literally impossible tasks. That's right: ChatGPT can perform a miracle and successfully in one try complete a task that is by definition impossible, such that it breaks the very test itself.

You don't get that from a mere search engine.

Re: ChatGPT scores 80% on SAT reading/writing with collective chain of thought

#126

Post by palata »

logicallee wrote: post #124
palata wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying that ChatGPT is not answering your questions, or returning relevant information . It is. But when I enter a question into Google, it also does fetch the relevant information, doesn't it? Why do you say that ChatGPT is "intelligent", and Google is not? Because ChatGPT formulates it in a nice, authoritative way? Say you ask DeepL to translate a sentence about biology from Spanish to English, and it does…

Google search results just search the web and return something already indexed. ChatGPT manipulates abstract thought. (Not always successfully, but more often than you do, based on our interaction so far.) Yes, you can say "please solve this mathematical problem" and sometimes get a novel working solution that has never been published but is formulated on the spot. Rather than just output text, you can direct its beh…

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

That's where you get your miracles from.

I guess I won't convince you that ChatGPT does not manipulate abstract thoughts, but just words. It really just interpolates between texts it has read, sometimes resulting in interesting answers, sometimes resulting in complete bullshit. And it has absolutely no clue about how wrong its output is. Because it does not "think" or "understand". It really just brilliantly copy-pastes words that seem relevant.

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