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Part II: The failure points from $5M to $100M in ARR

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Re: Part II: The failure points from $5M to $100M in ARR

#121

Post by shuckles »

ebiester wrote: post #116
shuckles wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re doing all that, the company could be paying you staff engineer or senior manager salaries?

It's not about being able to do all of it -- it's about being able to do it in a sustainable number of hours a week. Otherwise, you just have someone with the programmer title but actually doing PM work, and not doing it as well as someone who is specialized in the role.

The arguments in the thread are that aligning the product as built and architected with the goals of the company is actually engineering work and not PM work.

Re: Part II: The failure points from $5M to $100M in ARR

#122

Post by throw1234651234 »

fakedang wrote: post #55
xenadu02 wrote: post #53

As employee #36 I lived through some of these things first hand and definitely agree with them (I think we were over 200 people when I left). It was painful going through the enterprise focus transition along with a nonsensical reorg imposed by the aforementioned Big Tech VP. One day we had focused platform-specific teams working on satisfying customers, the next we were moved to cross-functional feature teams and fo…

As an outsider to the tech industry, it seems to me that the Product Manager/Product Owner role seems to be not only the most BS role, but also the most damaging role? Considering that I saw a post a few weeks back, I saw a similar post (I think on HN itself) where PMs were being fired en masse, I wonder if there is any real utility with the product team, or if it's just a holdover from Google doing its thing back in…

You are thinking of scrum master, who can make up to 50% more than POs/BAs. Let me summarize:

1. "Hey, I am picking up my kid from preschool, so cover (my only 15 minute meeting of the day)". This is a mandatory future present in 80% of scrum masters.

2. Team, good job, I am so proud of what you have accomplished - I, for one, am always looking for the approval of a random person who has little to do with the team.

3. "Well, what do YOU think we should do"? "Thank you for your input! Let's remove those blockers. Go ahead and reach out to whoever the relevant person is!"

4. Key knowledge required: Daily standup, retro, planning meeting run by dev.

Did I miss anything?

Re: Part II: The failure points from $5M to $100M in ARR

#123

Post by toss1 »

naijaboiler wrote: post #46
toss1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, this is the one thing that struck me wrong in the essay. After spending multiple paragraphs about how they found that they had to dig much deeper into the background of every exec, getting 10+ references from reports, peers, and their managers, and developing specific lists of red flags . . .they end the section with: "Takeaway: Always trust your gut on people. " Yes, for sure, if you 'gut' tells you something i…

I have hired before. A few times. "Trust my gut" is still the best predictor of success for me. Every hire i have talked myself into didn't end up working out. Nowadays for hiring, i live by, "if it's not a strong yes, it's not a yes"

Agree that a 'gut feeling' that something is off is not to be ignored; it's likely just factors unconsciously processed.

That said, how much of your 'Strong Yes' assessments are on your gut and how much on you have enough info to see that this candidate is qualified, enthusiastic, and a good fit? Also, how many times have those failed to work out and how many have 'Weak Yes' candidates actually worked out in the end? Those counter-examples might be worth looking into...

Re: Part II: The failure points from $5M to $100M in ARR

#124

Post by csh0 »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #71
fakedang wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider to the tech industry, it seems to me that the Product Manager/Product Owner role seems to be not only the most BS role, but also the most damaging role? Considering that I saw a post a few weeks back, I saw a similar post (I think on HN itself) where PMs were being fired en masse, I wonder if there is any real utility with the product team, or if it's just a holdover from Google doing its thing back in…

Of course there is. If not for the PM, who will speak with the customers, gather, analyze and understand their needs and problems? There should be a person that drives the product in the right direction based on customer conversations. In the early stages founder is the product owner. But as the company grows, the role of the founder/CEO changes. You now build the people, and people build the business. Engineers or C…

Office Space had a whole bit on this two decades ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuu9CpdjIo

Re: Part II: The failure points from $5M to $100M in ARR

#125

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #81
LambdaComplex wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If not for the PM, who will speak with the customers, gather, analyze and understand their needs and problems? The engineers? i.e. the people who will actually be fixing those problems? > Engineers or CEOs building features no one asked for is IMHO one of the major reasons lots of tech startups fail. So why put another layer (the PM) in between the engineers and the customers? Sounds like an unnecessary game of tel…

The same reason when every year a new iPad comes out, you have a thread on Hacker News with engineers complaining they can’t run Kubernetes cluster on it even though it has the technical capability to do it. Engineers don’t understand iPad’s product positioning, that it’s not built for them and they’re not the target market. Want to get a portable Docker developer machine? MacBook Air is cheaper and lighter than a 12…

Side issue but the iPad is a bad example. People first complain when it comes to the iPad especially the top of the range is that it is artificially gimped to protect the MacBook sales contrary to what customers actually want.

I can tell you that easily because I am currently as far from an engineering position as you can be and see people all around me who like the iPad form factor but are annoyed that you can’t properly run Office on it.

The bit about most engineer not being able to talk to customers is spot on however.

Re: Part II: The failure points from $5M to $100M in ARR

#126

Post by mattlong »

gms wrote: post #90
hemloc_io wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's go Uptown! One of the more colorful bars in the mission for sure :) Their bathroom is fun

Another former PlanGrid employee here - our office was next door :D

There are dozens of us!
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