Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022 • Hacker News Board

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#121

Post by vanderZwan » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

My mom tells me she's practically been making money with hers in the last years.

She had them installed when my parents were still running a GP practice together in a small village. That was only a few years before they retired though, so now half of the building is basically storage space that's barely used and unheated (also no sterilizing equipment in autoclaves, fewer fridges needed, etc). She also has a solar water heater, she cooks with gas, and her house is very well insulated. As a result of all this she ended up producing more electricity than she uses.

However, she's also still on an "old" contract with her energy provider that is quite beneficial towards her because they didn't anticipate this scenario - this will likely change soon when she has to renew it.

This is in the Netherlands, can't speak for other countries.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#122

Post by thfuran » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #83

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is technically true, but why is no one asking how and why his electricity bill is $223 at minimum, plied higher since the bill was only reduced by that amount. Also, “subsidies” are really just a quaint term for “made the working and lower middle class that can’t pay for such exorbitant luxuries pay for it through taxes and inflation”. I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t un…

Unless you walk to that restaurant, it will absolutely be subsidized. 6 percent of all state and local spending is on roads. And that's not counting any negative externalities, which subsidies should be reducing (like, for example, a solar installation subsidy), not increasing.

There are a lot of subsidies in agriculture as well.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#123

Post by prettychill » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #105

prettychill wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a much hotter and much more humid area than the author does, and my bills are not even remotely close to these. I do run my AC through the summer, probably more than most

how much is your bill and what's the breakdown of electricity costs (how many kwhrs) vs mandatory grid fees? (regulatory and connection fees)

Hottest month for me was aug, I paid around 161

~$135 1190kWh (charged at ~$0.114 / kWh) ~$10.50 tax

~15.50 other fees/riders which can not be recouped with panels

OP is somehow paying ~25c/kWh, though I have to believe they are counting the connections fees etc in their estimate, based on natl averages they would be an outlier for most states. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#124

Post by __derek__ » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #87

>Realizing that the solar company was in quite the pickle insofar as repossessing the panels would require costly legal actions on top of paying people to take out the system, I just waited on the payment. They would contact me periodically asking me to make payment and offering to help me get approved for a new loan. But I just ignored all of that. Seems pretty unethical tbh. The solar company delivered, but now thi…

IIRC, the author is part of the so-called "dirt-bag left" so that's just connecting theory and praxis.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#125

Post by AlexandrB » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

hbarka wrote: post #109

Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…

Was the California grid always private or was it run by the state government at one point? To me it makes no sense to privatize services where no competition is possible. You just end up with perverse incentives to do stuff like the above.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#126

Post by cheald » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

Dwolb wrote: post #107

bushbaba wrote: post #13

I paid ~15k to install solar in 2019. After tax rebates it was ~11k. I’m generating ~12MWh per year. My break even period is less than 5 years. I’m based out of California, and generate excess energy. My electric bill is now just ~$100/year.

Have you experienced any grid power outages where your solar panels saved your day?

Solar won't keep you online through a power outage. The inverter is required by law to cut power from solar panels when there is not power from the grid, so as to avoid feeding electricity back into the grid lines (which technicians may be working on!) - this is known as anti-islanding protection. If you want to be online through a grid outage you need a battery array.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#127

Post by xenadu02 » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

Nathanael_M wrote: post #43

jjeaff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially considering most modern panels are expected to still have a good amount of life left in them after 25 years. (80% or more}

Sorry, life after 25 years? That's WAY higher than I thought. That's incredible.

This is standard now. My REC Alpha Pure Black 400 panels are warrantied for 92% at 25 years.

The degradation is about 0.25%/yr. Assuming no exponential drop-off it would take >50 years to hit 80%.

Essentially no one has had to replace their panels due to degradation losses as of yet (since the vast majority of panels have been installed in the past ~30 years).

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#128

Post by eppp » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

hbarka wrote: post #109

Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…

Because net metering is forcing the utility to purchase power at the retail rate. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't a profit margin issue. There is a massive infrastructure and expense to deliver wholesale power to an individual customer and it has to be recouped. Either you sell back your power at some percent of wholesale or solar installs need to get a corresponding increased delivery fee.

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#129

Post by shostack » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

hbarka wrote: post #109

Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…

Would a good tl;Dr summary of things in CA be that if you didn't need solar before and got grandfathered, it doesn't make sense to get solar now?

How does that work with new homes being required to have solar installed? Is it just a net giant win for pg&e?

Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022

#130

Post by giantrobot » Tue, Jan 03, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

mnw21cam wrote: post #91

bryanlarsen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother-in-law's panels produce just as much electricity at noon in the winter time as they do in the summer time. Winter sun in the Canadian prairies is quite intense, and the panels are more efficient at -20C than they are at +20C.

But they'll produce for less time each day in the winter.

What the GP is saying is that with the losses from higher angle and shorter duration of insolation, the decreased temperatures increased efficiency such to match the summer's output. The heat in the summer reduces a panel's efficiency.