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Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
121–130 of 135 posts
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I own winter tires and he’s right. They’re not a marked improvement on just ice. You’re normally not on just ice a lot though thankfully.
Real winter tires? Because quality winter tires are awesome on ice.
Yes, and no they aren’t, you’re probably just thinking of icy conditions, where there is ice, snow, salt, bare asphalt, etc. They’re great for that.
But I’ve driven across a frozen Lake Erie with no snow (we used do that sometimes to get to the islands when the ice is thick enough) and it’s just pure ice. Nothing but chains makes much difference then.
But outside of rare stuff like that you’re not often on just ice, so OPs comment, while I agree with it in fact, it’s kind of an “aaaaaactually”.
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think there is more nuance here. A 4x4 with a locked center diff and open front and rear diffs acts just like many AWD implementations. That same 4x4 with limited slip diffs on front and/or rear is just like other AWD implementations. And that same 4x4 with locked front and/or rear diffs is just like yet other AWD implementations.
> A 4x4 with a locked center diff and open front and rear diffs acts just like many AWD implementations. Thats simply not true. It wouldnt be AWD if it cant adjust the power supplied to each axle. Thats the primary distinction.
Not all AWD implementations can adjust power per axle. The vast majority just use a center diff that is either open or limited slip. Both of those configurations are also used in some 4WD systems.
The primary distinction is that AWD is full time, while 4WD is part time and vehicles run in 2WD until the transfer case connects the second diff/axle.
Actual torque vectoring AWD systems are fairly rare and expensive compared to the AWD that has existed for 50 years, though they are becoming more common.
Here’s a good illustration of the different AWD implementations; I think you’ll find that a simple open center diff is still considered AWD and is still pretty common: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15102281/best-all-whe...
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW, in Michigan studded tires are illegal for on-road use in the Lower Peninsula. But they are legal in the Upper Peninsula. That said, I strongly disagree with you about AWD. It makes a tremendous difference for control in general in all winter conditions. Adding snow tires to AWD and things are just excellent and way more predictable.
AWD really does nothing, it helps with acceleration but that is the easy part. The hard part is slowing down and all cars brake using all 4 wheels. You don't brake better with an AWD car. Well, except if you have learned to drive using 4 wheel slides like a rally driver. Then I sincerely hope you lose your license before your endangerment of others lead to an accident.
> You don't brake better with an AWD car.
You engine brake better with an AWD car.
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
AWD really does nothing, it helps with acceleration but that is the easy part. The hard part is slowing down and all cars brake using all 4 wheels. You don't brake better with an AWD car. Well, except if you have learned to drive using 4 wheel slides like a rally driver. Then I sincerely hope you lose your license before your endangerment of others lead to an accident.
> You don't brake better with an AWD car. You engine brake better with an AWD car.
Even better with ABS brakes. You should never be that close to the limit, either way. Then you are already driving dangerously.
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A 4x4 with a locked center diff and open front and rear diffs acts just like many AWD implementations. Thats simply not true. It wouldnt be AWD if it cant adjust the power supplied to each axle. Thats the primary distinction.
Not all AWD implementations can adjust power per axle. The vast majority just use a center diff that is either open or limited slip. Both of those configurations are also used in some 4WD systems. The primary distinction is that AWD is full time, while 4WD is part time and vehicles run in 2WD until the transfer case connects the second diff/axle. Actual torque vectoring AWD systems are fairly rare and expensive compa…
To clarify, your initial statement said "a locked center diff" would be a valid form of AWD, which is what i was contesting.
All the differentials mentioned in your link allow for variable power distribution to each axle. Thats the whole purpose of a center differential.
Of course, not all AWD are created equal. Some apply equal torque to all wheels (i.e. open), some prefer a single axle (e.g. limited slip), some aren't controlled by the wheels but by the ESC (e.g. electronically actuated clutch packs). I suppose in electric cars where each axle is driven independently they dont even need a center differential (but I have no knowledge there).
But its an interesting link nonetheless - it was certainly educational - so thanks!
I do agree, however, that a full-time 4WD (which have a central diff, unlike part-time 4WD which generally do not) are effectively indistinguishable from an AWD with a simple open center diff. Of course, those are the least effective types of AWD - but the 4WD at least has the ability to lock that diff and likely has a multi-speed transfer case :)
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#127Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…
Yup. I live in the mountains in Canada, have a FWD car with snow tires. Runs circles around trucks or SUVs with all-seasons.
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#128Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…
I never understood the opposition to good winter tires. Apart from the chore of shifting, and the added investment of an extra set of rims (usually), the cost of the tires isn't any larger over the long term. You wear two sets of tires interchangably so they last longer.
> Apart from the chore of shifting, and the added investment of an extra set of rims [...]
The former is probably the biggest factor, with the latter taking care of the rest. All-season tires might be less-than-optimal tires in either summer or winter (though the higher-end ones have gotten much better), but the perceived convenience factor is a big enough selling point for most. And when their performance isn't sufficient in winter, people probably aren't going to immediately blame their all-season tires for a loss of traction. They'll just blame the weather and assume that "it is what it is," even with AWD.
If you've never driven on proper winter tires when the weather goes to shit, you don't even know what you're missing. But more than that, I think there's a huge segment of the car-buying public that doesn't give their tires any thought beyond "are they still good?"
Hell, my sister bought a Mercedes a couple years ago that happened to come from the factory with high-performance summer tires and no mention of that fact on the build sheet or window sticker (nor was it spec'd with large wheels with low-profile tires, where it'd at least some sense). Had I not looked at the sidewall when I was with her after the tire pressure sensor went off, she'd have been in for one hell of a dangerous surprise when the first winter storms hit a couple weeks later. Even the dealer was surprised by it.
Ever since then, I've always wondered just how many cars drive around in winter weather with the wrong tires and a blissfully unaware driver.
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Real winter tires? Because quality winter tires are awesome on ice.
Yes, and no they aren’t, you’re probably just thinking of icy conditions, where there is ice, snow, salt, bare asphalt, etc. They’re great for that. But I’ve driven across a frozen Lake Erie with no snow (we used do that sometimes to get to the islands when the ice is thick enough) and it’s just pure ice. Nothing but chains makes much difference then. But outside of rare stuff like that you’re not often on just ice,…
Ah, literal ice - well, certainly that is out of the normal use for the tires? Snow tires definitely help for "road ice" or "snow that has become ice" - I had to once drive up a fairly steep driveway of "snow that was now ice" (where you could not walk up it without crampons) and my snow tires did a great job with my AWD - I was extremely impressed.
Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]
#130Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…
I never understood the opposition to good winter tires. Apart from the chore of shifting, and the added investment of an extra set of rims (usually), the cost of the tires isn't any larger over the long term. You wear two sets of tires interchangably so they last longer.
Double the cost? I thought about getting winter tires but my all season tires are rated for 60,000 miles or 6 years whichever comes first. I only drive like 6,000 miles per year so getting a second set of tires means buying 2 sets of tires every 6 years.