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Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

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Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#121
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised at human greed. Was it last week when there was an interview with several "investors", and pretty much all of them admitted they knew they were speculating in a highly volatile and unregulated market before they lost all their savings in FTX' crash? They knew the risks, they tried anyway, some really needed that money.

It is greed for sure. But it is also the lack of legit opportunities to invest, unless one is an accredited investor. I found a handful of places I wanted to invest, but I can't, because I am not an accredited investor. I am left with stock market and crypto. It is super funny (sad?) that I can go to Vegas and blow up my life savings in a matter of hours. There are no rules to save me from that. But there are rules c…

> left with stock market and crypto

I used to advocate for loosening accredited investor standards, and was involved in a 2014 effort that did so. Then I see this. Where public equities are put on the same pedestal as crypto (and implicitly, private equity), while the universe of commodities, fixed income, credit, real estate and their myriads of derivatives are ignored. Like, I dabble in angel investments. But they’re as risky as crypto, and require thousands of dollars of legal diligence per investment, even to do irresponsibly.

We have a gambling problem in our markets that’s been sold to everyday Americans under the guise of democratising finance. We don’t need to block people from being irresponsible. But there should be a low cap, in line with a responsible fraction of one’s wealth that could be burned in a casino, and strict exemptions guarded with exams, not a wealth test. Particularly for the socially useless forms, such as slot machines and crypto futures.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#122
post #57
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting how the players change but the script is exactly the same and yet, people keep falling for it. I really don't get it. I once knew some people that were up to their necks in an MLM/pyramid scheme, it was like a cult, no matter how many examples you gave them of people ending up losing their shirts they would buy more of the crap and stuff it in every nook and cranny of their house being sure that they were…

I think "cult" is the exact dynamic at play here. As much as I love the internet, it has enabled distributed cults on a level rarely seen before. Not only does it support traditional cults with central leaders and official dogmas (which I think includes most MLMs), but they've allowed for a sort of emergent, leaderless cult based on collective creation of the memes that drive it. E.g., QAnon and the cryptocurrency bu…

Yep, right down to the Potemkin village of relentless positivity, and 'faith' in the supremacy of [TOKEN].

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#123

Even an audited exchange like Coinbase that is trying to do everything right is still self reporting loses like $430M in quarter 1 of 2022 just by operating their business correctly. Not your keys, not your crypto. Anyone storing their crypto on any exchange has this risk.

For now at least with Coinbase it is the investors funds at risk, not the customers funds. And that example shows how hard it is to run such a business profitably.

> ... with Coinbase it is the investors funds at risk, not the customers funds

Oh boy are you in for a surprise:

"In its quarterly report, Coinbase added a risk disclosure: if the company were to file for bankruptcy, the court might treat customer assets that the exchange is custodian for -- their Bitcoin, Dogecoin or whatever -- as Coinbase’s assets. And they’d be at the back of the line for repayment, forcing normal people, unaccustomed to the ins and outs of federal bankruptcy court, to claw back their money along with everybody else owed money by the exchange."

From Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-11/coinbase-...

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you have the keys, it’s not your store of value, as people will find out when this implodes. What are your keys worth if the price of Bitcoin is close to zero?

Bitcoin has already reached 50% of the 27 year lifespan of the average fiat currency. https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-is-already-at-40-of-a...

Debunked: http://jpkoning.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-life-and-death-of-i...

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#125
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazars is not lower tier. They're not in the big four but they are quite large and well respected, at least they were until they - and BDO, another large accounting firm - were flagged as insufficient in terms of oversight by the UK regulators. See: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-20/mazars-bd... So they're on thin ice and they will not risk going down with this particular ship.

They are by definition lower-tier, as they don't have the resources to run an audit for a firm that purportedly maintains billions in reserves. A contract of that size wouldn't end up at a regional arm in South Africa anyway. Big 4 auditors aren't exactly cheap, but there is a reason why they audit all the major firms. Mazar's biggest customer appears to be the Trump Organization.

Auditing a firm is not an act of charity. It’s a contract. Binance has either asked zero accountants to audit their billions in reserves, or zero have taken the job. Mazars international probably got scared and leaned on the partner. The auditing of a firm this size is usually not a very big deal and nowhere near the capacity of a partner with all the roles below.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#126
post #3

Mazars is likely wondering if they are going to be the next Arthur Andersen before this is all over. Good luck finding another firm when one of the top firms in the world drops you like a hot potato.

They haven't done anything wrong AFAIK; they didn't sign off on an audit, and withdrew, which is the reality of many smaller accounting practices taking on unfamiliar clients.

Arthur Anderson knowingly fudged the numbers at Enron, and provided both accounting and consulting services, which was a big conflict of interest. The consulting arm came up with new type of revenue opportunities (energy contracts), and the accounting arm cooked the books to show that these were profitable.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And people act like this is a problem with cryptcurrency, but it's really a problem with people in corporations behaving badly.

Only that crypto is so unregulated that is hard to define what to audit against. And FTX wad never fully audited anyways, something which woupd be impossible with non-crypto equivalents of whatever FTX was beyond a major scam.

Exactly. However the serious participants in the cryptocurrency space have been begging for regulation.

The complaint however is that the regulations that have been proposed are trying to pidgeonhole the different parts of digital assets and decentralised finance (not defi but decentralised financial services as a whole) into existing categories that they don't cleanly fit in.

Cryptocurrency for example isn't a commodity (representation of a resource) or a security(representation of ownership/control in an organisation/system). It can never fit cleanly under one definition or the other. Some tokens would fit cleanly under the definition of a security, some under the definition of a commodity, and some cleanly under neither.

Likewise, node, relay, and validator operators for networks don't really fit cleanly under any given existing set of regulatory guidelines. Regulations for Money Service Businesses for example are overly restrictive and essentially outlaw any existing cryptocurrency operator from even attempting to operate in the US. It's not that the stated goals are impossible to comply with but rather that the specifics of the regulations are. Conversely, some of the much laxer proposed regulations wouldn't adequately cover operators and would leave the door open to abuses.

AML and KYC regulations are particularly problematic. They mean well and the spirit of the regulations should be adhered to but they have not been written in a way that is compatible with this tech. Networks with privacy preserving transactions can comply with AML & KYC. Projects on those networks can as well. It won't however be in a way compliant with the direct reporting of user identities. Even if you wanted to comply with KYC & AML, you physically couldn't. Instead you can build infrastructure to comply KYC and AML via DIDs, ZK-proofs, and conditional release of private information (via functional encryption and a number of other techniques).

There's a multitude of ways to handle the regulatory complexity without legally crippling privacy preserving & decentralised tech. It just requires that regulators actually work with the communities that have been trying to do things proper and kosher. Instead regulators have essentially ignored the industry's requests & proposals in whole, claimed to have heard nothing, and plowed forward with pushing regulations that would cripple the legitimately useful technology in the space.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For now at least with Coinbase it is the investors funds at risk, not the customers funds. And that example shows how hard it is to run such a business profitably.

> ... with Coinbase it is the investors funds at risk, not the customers funds Oh boy are you in for a surprise: "In its quarterly report, Coinbase added a risk disclosure: if the company were to file for bankruptcy, the court might treat customer assets that the exchange is custodian for -- their Bitcoin, Dogecoin or whatever -- as Coinbase’s assets. And they’d be at the back of the line for repayment, forcing norma…

Ouch. Thanks for that. I wonder why the normal customer funds segregation rules do not apply to crypto assets.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#129

"To prepare a proof of reserves report, an auditor uses procedures agreed with the company but does not vouch for whether those procedures are appropriate. The auditor also does not give any assurance or opinion over the numbers in the report, as it would in a full financial audit." What does it say that a lower-tier accounting firm wouldn't even complete this garbage process?

What does it even mean to audit a company that doesn’t follow or reconcile to GAAP (or equivalent)? Are there examples in any other industries?
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