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Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

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Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#121

Post by kevincox »

hungryforcodes wrote: post #105
sbaiddn wrote: post #103

This is a serious question: In a place like the DMZ, are mines really immoral? Are land mines universally immoral? Anymore than any other weapon of war? Does this immorality extend to naval as opposed to land mines? No one is walking freely in the DMZ. Certainly not children. If land mines are effective (US generals say no, but they don't win too many wars.) they raise the cost of attack almost for free. This stabili…

But this easy to answer. In a war -- as annoying as they are -- the idea generally is to kill precisely the enemy and avoid killing civilians. Once the military is eliminated, then the country surrenders and the war is over. This is obviously NOT how it really works in practice. But this is why carpet bombing, phosphor, mines and so on are not precise and deliberate but indiscriminate. Mines particularly persist long…

> while on a relaxing vacation 40 years after it was planted

Maybe we need an international treaty on maximum lifetimes for things like landmines. After 10 years they deactivate. That way if the war continues you need to re-plant but at least you have a well-defined lifetime for when an area is safe after a war.

If these were digital devices it would be fairly simple to accomplish, but I suspect a lot of these are far more primitive. How hard would it be to add an expiry that for example was accurate enough to fail reliably between 9 and 10 years after deployment?

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#122

Post by mrguyorama »

BucketsMcG wrote: post #89
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't know dogs were used to clear mines. I would have thought they would be too heavy to walk on mines, considering that mines can kill children, and military working dogs have a weight comparable to children. Remember that a dog almost always has two of its paws on the ground. Forgiving for dynamics, if a 50lb child is walking, it could place all 50lbs on a trigger. A 50lb dog should only be able to place 25lb…

Even a light dog can put a surprising amount of pressure through its feet if it wants to. Tiny paws mean it's all concentrated in a small area. My 10kg dog feels like he weighs a ton when he puts his front paws on me and leans into it. I've no idea what it takes to trigger a mine, and I don't know if it would be enough, but a dog can press down harder than you'd expect.

Specifically anti-tank mines tend to be designed NOT to detonate with only a person walking on them, so maybe dogs are more useful for clearing those

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#123

Post by DonHopkins »

bluGill wrote: post #85
Spooky23 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senators > Generals. The Senate has a lot of power and is insulated from the electorate in such a way as an issue like this is not a threat to them. For whatever reason, the leaders who control what makes it to the Senate floor did not send it there. They own that - it’s their call.

Not when there is a war - generals can and likely will shoot senators. US generals are patriotic enough to not kill US senators, but foreign generals that the US might be fighting in the future will target senators.

A reality check history reminder: a certain US President sent a mob of raving mad racist violent lunatics to storm the US Capitol and assassinate the US Vice President and US Senators, in a failed attempt to overturn the results of the election that he lost.

Remember the gallows that Trump's mob built and chanted "Hang Mike Pence"?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/16/us/politics/jan-6-gallows...

And how Trump reacted approvingly?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/us/politics/trump-pence-j...

The same US President who eased the restrictions on land mines.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-war-landmines-idUSKBN...

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#124

Post by biztos »

hollerith wrote: post #98
grey413 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most domesticated animals that I can think of do just fine when they're released into the wild. In fact, I don't think there's any domesticated animals out there that don't have a feral population running around somewhere.

Cattle?

Apparently:

https://news.csu.edu.au/feature/are-feral-cattle-the-brumbie...

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#126

Post by bluGill »

pc86 wrote: post #99
bluGill wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when there is a war - generals can and likely will shoot senators. US generals are patriotic enough to not kill US senators, but foreign generals that the US might be fighting in the future will target senators.

This is a comment out of a fantasy world.

That is how WWI started. It wasn't a US politician, politicians are targeted at times.

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#127

Post by midoridensha »

asdff wrote: post #56
dmichulke wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With your approach there's always the risk that your sanctions are worse for the population than the consequences of the mines, particularly because economic damage is compounding. How do you deal with that?

You can sanction the individual oligarchs versus the country wholecloth perhaps. Ban the oligarchs from travel, deny their private jets over allied airspace, deny their boats a right to port, offer a bounty for their boats in international waters. Seize their foreign assets. Ban them from participating in your markets. Make participating in the fun of the global high society annoying to impossible, and force them to…

They've done all that stuff and more (including seizing their boats) for Russian oligarchs and it hasn't changed anything. In fact, a bunch of those oligarchs have committed suicide as a result, frequently by shooting themselves in the backs of their heads and then jumping out of windwos.

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#128

Post by DonHopkins »

uni_rule wrote: post #82
DonHopkins wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Democrats are for the treaty, so the Republicans are against it, just to own the libs, no matter what the cost or consequences or morality, regardless of the facts or anything based on reality or science or humanity. >2014: The United States under President Barack Obama mostly accepted the terms of the treaty by ceasing to acquire anti-personnel land mines and prohibiting their use outside of the Korean Peninsula…

"Sorry, having morals is partisan and since they were there first I am against acting morally."

Remember, these are the same brilliant moral "leaders" who murdered their own base en masse just to own the libs, by telling them not to listen to what medical professionals were telling them to do, not to wear masks, not to get vaccinated, not to self isolate, but instead to inject disinfectant into their veins, shove ultraviolet flashlights up their wazoos, eat horse dewormer pills, then mount a violent insurrection by storming the US Capitol. Leaders who don't believe in evolution or science or medicine or empathy, but are actively reducing the gene pool of people stupid enough to follow them. Not to mention stealing classified documents and dining with white supremacists. So yes, a lot of blame rests on the political side.

More Republicans Died Than Democrats after COVID-19 Vaccines Came Out:

https://www.nextgov.com/ideas/2022/11/more-republicans-died-...

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#129

Post by Spooky23 »

bluGill wrote: post #85
Spooky23 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senators > Generals. The Senate has a lot of power and is insulated from the electorate in such a way as an issue like this is not a threat to them. For whatever reason, the leaders who control what makes it to the Senate floor did not send it there. They own that - it’s their call.

Not when there is a war - generals can and likely will shoot senators. US generals are patriotic enough to not kill US senators, but foreign generals that the US might be fighting in the future will target senators.

This isn’t Guatemala. LARPing maga types may have fantasies about this, but don’t have the ability to execute and follow through.

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#130

Post by bluGill »

Spooky23 wrote: post #129
bluGill wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when there is a war - generals can and likely will shoot senators. US generals are patriotic enough to not kill US senators, but foreign generals that the US might be fighting in the future will target senators.

This isn’t Guatemala. LARPing maga types may have fantasies about this, but don’t have the ability to execute and follow through.

Unless some god has told you the world will end tommorow, you have no idea what the future will bring. Over the next 1000 years things will change and we have no clue what (again, except of course if the world ends).

3 presidents have already been shot (that I remember). while the secret service is getting better, it wouldn't be hard for someone who wanted to get the next one. Senators are even easier.

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