Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 176 posts

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#121

Post by sangnoir »

mypastself wrote: post #61
Shoue wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plenty of companies offer product samples or free services upfront Sure, but a startup using VC money to offer you something for free is very different from "I will personally volunteer to help you". Also the entire point of sharing articles is that they're being read, so there isn't any way to avoid implying they're doing "self-promotion" – should people just stop writing and sharing articles? Sometimes people are…

I might be inclined to agree with your points if the article weren’t mostly fluff, as stated in my original comment. The reason I read it was because I was genuinely interested in how this specific approach works in practice and how it applies to tech, but there was little actual information and a lot of what seemed like corporate cult-speak. Perhaps the article is devoid of insightful content to such an extent that…

I think you're biased against cooperatives which made you uber-critical of the article. I did not find it to be "fluff."

Many of the engineering blogs shared on HN have a "by the way, we are hiring"[0] stinger, or a promotion of the author's startup's product as a solution to the engineering problem described by the post, or if its a benchmark, then the entire post would be promoting their product as the superior product. This article no worse than others wrt self promotion.

0. Maybe not so much now, but perhaps we'll see an uptick of "I'm looking for my next move, if you're hiring, contact me."

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#122

Post by psyfi »

karaterobot wrote: post #115

Just my experience here, but: A badly run cooperative fails because the people involved don't take it seriously, or lose their alignment and break apart. A well run cooperative fails (or succeeds) for all the usual reasons any business does. A well run coop ends up feeling a lot like a small business with a traditional structure, and an owner who respects their employees and doesn't act like a tyrant. That's cool, bu…

> an owner who respects their employees and doesn't act like a tyrant

Until a multi-billion company aquires the corporate

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#123

Post by sangnoir »

spuz wrote: post #66
dogma1138 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common mistake, actual functioning cooperatives operate like any other enterprise with an set executive structure a CEO and a board of directors. The big difference is the ownership model so shareholder meetings are basically employee meetings so a successful cooperative simply runs like any other business just one where the employees are treated as the shareholders they are when it comes to decision making…

What is the difference between a cooperative like you describe and a startup where employees are given shares?

Employees are not second-class (or third-class) on share preference or dilution.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#124

Post by kybernetyk »

fimdomeio wrote: post #27

I'm currently part of the administration of a co-op. It's in Portugal and it's a Multisectorial co-op, meaning instead of being focused on one type of activity we do anything as long as we have a member with that skillset. We are an agregation of freelancers and small businesses that go from small scale farming, to web development or architecture. The coop serves as a way to have a lot of the nice things of a bigger…

>The biggest thing I've learned from being part of this process is that co-ops vastly destroys competition among peers and replace that we the mindset of "what's the best way to benefit the collective".

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#125

Post by kybernetyk »

leethaxor wrote: post #111
zozbot234 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Co-ops and partnerships work very well for low capital intensity businesses, and coding is a low capital-intensity business in this day and age. It makes total sense that people are interested in such arrangements, it's not just a matter of wishful thinking.

I don't understand... I work as a software contractor in EU. I don't see a single thing I'm missing by not being in a coop. 5% of my income is a lot of money. For that money I can buy all the accounting and tax advisory services I need with enough money left over to get a Wework All Access membership and even then I'd have a significant portion of the 5% left. Why does it make total sense that people are interested?

>Why does it make total sense that people are interested?

Because that way you can finance a bunch of useless moochers who "administer your coop". Smells like typical rent seeking.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#126

Post by larksimian »

kybernetyk wrote: post #124
fimdomeio wrote: post #27

I'm currently part of the administration of a co-op. It's in Portugal and it's a Multisectorial co-op, meaning instead of being focused on one type of activity we do anything as long as we have a member with that skillset. We are an agregation of freelancers and small businesses that go from small scale farming, to web development or architecture. The coop serves as a way to have a lot of the nice things of a bigger…

>The biggest thing I've learned from being part of this process is that co-ops vastly destroys competition among peers and replace that we the mindset of "what's the best way to benefit the collective". Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Does it? Isn't that literally what being part of any well-functioning organisation is supposed to be like?

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#127

Post by zimbatm »

jnurmine wrote: post #77
Lutger wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of the commercial success of coops, your premise that the main reason for work is money does not hold up to scrutiny. If merely adequately compensated, money turns out to be really low on the list of things that actually motivates people.

I see this claim a lot in different contexts, and personally have never quite understood who it really talks about. It cannot talk about everyone, because there are many different kinds of people and work sectors. I'd expect the motivational priorities to exist on a continuum, on which some people are more motivated by money than others. Also, the "adequate compensation" varies from person to person; some are happy w…

The C-suite probably does it more for power, influence, impact than the money. Of course it's nice to have some more money, but that's not going to meaninfully change your life at that point.

Of course if you don't have enough to live by, the main goal is going to be to earn more or just to survive

Past that, more money helps remove day-to-day problems in life, at various levels. But it becomes less important than other factors like having a healthy and meaningful life. I think it's assumed that the generalization applies to that level.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#128

Post by heavyset_go »

Jensson wrote: post #6

Nowhere did he mention salary levels. The main reason we work is to make money, if worker cooperatives makes you less money then that would be the biggest reason to not join one. I really doubt there are many cooperatives paying more than FAANG, so why not just join one of those instead?

Autonomy, real ownership, democratic decision making, profit sharing, etc are all reasons why someone would want to join a cooperative.

As an employee, you are at the whims of your employers when it comes to something as important as the way you're able to support yourself and your family.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#129

Post by greenie_beans »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #116
beedeebeedee wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this case YC is a shared resource, and two accounts segwayed a thread about personal experience in an attempt to defend an unrelated issue they presented themselves. I'm afraid I don't follow. The commenter above cited papers concerning the topic (coops/labor managed companies). You made a comment about personal experience (nonprofit politics) and then also equated it with the tragedy of the commons (which seems…

Most coops tend to be registered as nonprofits in my part of the world for tax reasons, and others have an elected board which distributes earnings though a share structure to members. You have failed to provide data to explain the context of your input. Thus, still remain off-topic, and orthogonal to the line of observations corroborated with other members experiences. As initially inferred, unaccountable individual…

did you read the paper they shared?

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#130

Post by therealdrag0 »

leethaxor wrote: post #120
nanomonkey wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume that the benefits are in having coworkers that fill in the gaps in your own business skills. For example: finding clients, invoicing, server maintenance, customer service, training, documentation, implementation consultants. There are a variety of job skills that one person will not have or want to contribute 100% of the time that are valuable jobs for junior or more senior coworkers. If you are paying…

> finding clients, invoicing, server maintenance, customer service, training, documentation, implementation consultants Clients find me, not the other way around. Documentation and implementation are my own lines of work. I have an accountant, tax advisor and lawyer as subscriptions. I also have a coworking pass. These cost me about 1.5% of my annual income. Trainings are given for free in coops? I can't imagine myse…

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m not familiar with the space but I wonder if it’s just a matter of elite-ness. Hypothesis: The top 1 or 10 percent of a field are better off in their own, whereas the rest benefit from collective benefits. Another example that comes to mind is Matt Yglesias leaving Vox. He was well paid at Vox but now on his own I’m sure he’s even higher paid and has more freedom etc. I donno just speculating.
Post reply on HN