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Opening the North American charging standard

tesla.com

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Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#121

Post by DannyBee »

InTheArena wrote: post #58
ryukafalz wrote: post #20

Hilarious to call their thing the "North American Charging Standard" when every other manufacturer in North America has already standardized on something else.

They are all tiny in comparison... The vast majority of EVs in the United States use this now, and it's not just historical - Just to emphasis the most popular EV cars in the US today are: Tesla Model Y 60,271 20% 191,451 50.7% 33.2% Tesla Model 3 55,030 67% 156,357 94.5% 27.1% Ford Mustang Mach-E 10,414 – 28,089 49% 4.9% Tesla Model S 9,171 150% 23,464 79.9% 4.1% Chevy Bolt EV/EUV 14,709 226% 22,012 -11.3% 3.8% Hyun…

But there are already 3x more level 2 + CCS ports than tesla ports.

In the US:

There are 36000 individual tesla connections

There are 92000 l2 j1772 ports.

There are 22000 CCS DC fast ports

They are comparing the DC fast number to the tesla number, and ignoring the j1772 number.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#122

Post by _joel »

darknavi wrote: post #113
masklinn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also why the best toaster was created in the 50s, how petrol lamps work, the wild story of video on discs, and dumb US. automotive standards (or less dumb ones). Followed by a speed run through the entire history of analog photography. It’s wild not just how varied Alex’s interests are, but how he’ll find interest in the most mundane subjects (christmas lamps) and how well and thoroughly he’s able to present them.

A bit more electrics based but Big Clive also tears down the most random pieces of technology. It's quite fun to watch him take a dollar store toy apart and see how it ticks.

You guys are pretty much listing my subs. Adrian's Digital Basement, 8-bit guy, Curious Marc, LGR, Usagi Electric and Techmoan also feature.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#123

Post by Bud »

kelnos wrote: post #97
akozak wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't really matter even if it's slightly technically better. We are WAY too late in the game here (US is already deploying federal funds!), and they should have engaged with open standards a decade ago.

Yup, I don't think it matters which one is technically better. They both get the job done, and one is an actual standard that many car makers have agreed upon -- "many" meaning "every single one except Tesla". If Tesla wanted theirs to be standard, they should have made this move years ago. They missed the boat, and are now scrambling to avoid having to change their own sockets.

No post body was provided.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#124

Post by londons_explore »

rnk wrote: post #93
maxsilver wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the (Tesla) connector is definitely better, I'm not convinced of that. Tesla's connector is thinner and lighter yes absolutely. But Tesla is also weaker and less reliable \ less fault tolerant than standard EV charger cables (See the dreaded EP307 / lock error, something that can't even happen with a normal EV CCS charger) I definitely think it's preferable for CCS win, as it's the safest, most durable, most co…

The tesla plug has a decade of successful heavy use behind it, and it doesn't have a history of failing despite being the most used ev charging system and plug in the world (comparing to the ccs standards around the us and the world). You'll need to provide some references to point to tesla problems. On the other hand I have a brand new us ccs car and every time I go to a public charger it's an open question whether…

I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the vast majority of 'faulty' chargers are in fact issues with software. Ie. Network connection down. Car not registered. Card terminal broken. Etc.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#125

Post by chroma »

kgermino wrote: post #48
Lendal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might be trying to get ahead of a possible push to mandate CCS, and they don't want to get pushed around like Apple did. I for one am fine with it. The "NACS" is objectively better by almost every available measure, and if the despised Elon Musk wants to give his stuff away, hey I'll take it. Any good reasons why we should reject this proposal?

> Any good reasons why we should reject this proposal? No idea here. The 1 MW charging claim feels weird since faster charging was definitely a touted benefit of CCS in the recent past. I'm not sure if something changed. To me, it doesn't really matter one way or another. The CCS connector is bulky, but so is a gas station nozzle and I've never had a problem using one of those. Plus you'll use the CCS connector less…

North America's CCS[1] isn't compatible with Europe's CCS[2]. They're physically different connectors.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:J1772_(CCS1).svg

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IEC_62196_Type_2_(M,_DC,_...

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#126

Post by hedora »

InTheArena wrote: post #63
JonathonW wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't turn into Betamax/VHS or Blu-ray/HD-DVD because CCS has already won-- every EV sold in the US except Tesla (and maybe still the Nissan Leaf; they may still be on CHAdeMO) has CCS Type 1. This is probably too little, too late for Tesla.

People seem deep in denial about Tesla market share. Tesla is 80% of all EVs sold and still 65% of current vehicles sold last quarter - even with some dramatically cheaper EVs available. As Gigafactories in Austin, Berlin and Shanghai continue to ramp, that's unlikely to change.

They dropped to 70% of vehicles on the road last year, and are only claiming >66% in this press release. BofA projects an 11% market share for Tesla by 2025.

Also, their order backlog is dropping, even though we are in the middle of a gasoline crisis, and all (?) other EV manufacturers are seeing unprecedented demand. This suggests current factories can meet Tesla's future steady state demand, so ramping will only help a bit:

https://insideevs.com/news/615583/estimated-tesla-order-back...

I think the root cause is that they only have a few models, especially compared to the combined model lines of their competition.

Also, many people on the coasts are uncomfortable supporting Musk, thanks to the Twitter thing and Tesla labor violations. For that crowd, Tesla may as well be welding truck balls to their back bumpers.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#127

Post by AlexandrB »

InTheArena wrote: post #63
JonathonW wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't turn into Betamax/VHS or Blu-ray/HD-DVD because CCS has already won-- every EV sold in the US except Tesla (and maybe still the Nissan Leaf; they may still be on CHAdeMO) has CCS Type 1. This is probably too little, too late for Tesla.

People seem deep in denial about Tesla market share. Tesla is 80% of all EVs sold and still 65% of current vehicles sold last quarter - even with some dramatically cheaper EVs available. As Gigafactories in Austin, Berlin and Shanghai continue to ramp, that's unlikely to change.

Tesla is still selling exclusively luxury sedans and SUVs. Cheaper cars like the Bolt or utility vehicles like the F150 Lightning serve market segments where Tesla is not even a competitor. I think it's expected that Tesla's market share will drop a lot in the coming years.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#128

Post by rootusrootus »

pseudosavant wrote: post #53
wilg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try plugging a Nissan Leaf into a CCS charger.

Let's just not talk about the Nissan Leaf. The Nissan Leaf is completely out-of-place in today's EV landscape and by current EV standards, it barely counts as a "real EV" you can live with. Speaking as a former Leaf owner. The Leaf is the only model in the U.S. that uses, or has ever used, the CHAdeMO connection that the Leaf has. Good luck finding a CHAdeMO charger now, it was already hard 4 years ago and it is just…

> The Leaf is the only model in the U.S. that uses, or has ever used, the CHAdeMO connection

That's mostly true, but there is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV which still uses it.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#129

Post by londons_explore »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #90
InTheArena wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are all tiny in comparison... The vast majority of EVs in the United States use this now, and it's not just historical - Just to emphasis the most popular EV cars in the US today are: Tesla Model Y 60,271 20% 191,451 50.7% 33.2% Tesla Model 3 55,030 67% 156,357 94.5% 27.1% Ford Mustang Mach-E 10,414 – 28,089 49% 4.9% Tesla Model S 9,171 150% 23,464 79.9% 4.1% Chevy Bolt EV/EUV 14,709 226% 22,012 -11.3% 3.8% Hyun…

Cars can last 10 or more years. If you buy a car today you're making a bet that Tesla and its standard will still be dominant over all other car and charger manufacturers in the year 2032+. That is an extraordinarily foolish bet. My bet is that within two years Tesla standardizes on CCS for its US cars (thus getting rid of an annoying upgrade/adapter/retrofit problem) and then what'll be left is the sad minority (AKA…

I'd bet a garage will be able to do a connector swap within an hour's labour if Tesla will make the necessary firmware changes.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#130

Post by robin_reala »

politician wrote: post #102
kelnos wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I don't think it matters which one is technically better. They both get the job done, and one is an actual standard that many car makers have agreed upon -- "many" meaning "every single one except Tesla". If Tesla wanted theirs to be standard, they should have made this move years ago. They missed the boat, and are now scrambling to avoid having to change their own sockets.

Looks at Apple.

EU managed to get Tesla to standardise onto a common plug (CCS2) too, but unlike with USB-C it Tesla are happy to not roll it out globally.
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