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Why is every layoff 10-15%?

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Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#121

Post by arpa »

Spivak wrote: post #57
UncleOxidant wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seems to be writing for CEOs. Reading further he seems to figure that CEOs will be able to reassert control of employees by forcing them back to the office since employees are not going to be able to easily jump ship for another job. As CEO now is your opportunity to rethink remote work. You may decide you want to continue as is, or you may want to make changes. You have an opportunity to act. Not that returning t…

We're just gonna gloss over, "quick your employees don't have leverage, make changes they won't like" like that isn't indicative of a capitalist hellscape? If shit like this doesn't radicalize you into democracy in the workplace then we're fucked. Especially since right now that lack of leverage was literally manufactured on purpose by the fed.

What starts with U and gives them nightmares? That's right.

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#122

Post by serf »

lostcolony wrote: post #51
throwaway0x7E6 wrote: post #22

because that's roughly the amount of ESG dead weight. nobody's firing productive workers.

>> nobody's firing productive workers. Remind me why Twitter is trying to rehire workers they let go, within a week?

I think by now it's understood that the goings-on at Twitter are extraordinary and out of the norm.

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#123

Post by irrational »

spamizbad wrote: post #113
UncleOxidant wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seems to be writing for CEOs. Reading further he seems to figure that CEOs will be able to reassert control of employees by forcing them back to the office since employees are not going to be able to easily jump ship for another job. As CEO now is your opportunity to rethink remote work. You may decide you want to continue as is, or you may want to make changes. You have an opportunity to act. Not that returning t…

CEOs are also going to face significant budget scrutiny and will have to really justify signing a 10 year lease (which won't be cheap) instead of investing in things that are proven to drive growth. Class A office space outside of super expensive cities runs about $35/sqft on average. Employees need about 175 square feet each. So every employee is $6125 more expensive -- but that's only assuming you're renting somepl…

I’d really like to know what the numbers are for the company I work for. Even if they rent a building in a business park (because there is not enough room on campus for a group), they will completely revamp the building from top to bottom and make it completely bespoke. The last time I worked in one of these buildings, they brought in artists who spent a week stenciling words and artwork over a concrete wall. How much did that cost?

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#124

Post by Joel_Mckay »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #114
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #112

I always assumed it was a ritual sacrifice to telegraph a message to investors that a company is reducing operating costs to pollish the annual report. This is also why employees should be nervous about firms that sync a hiring cycle with Q2/May. In the US, a CEO must make the profitable decision, or face direct legal peril. It often has nothing to do with the character of those on the board. ;)

That is at least in part an urban legend: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-co... The CEO might still get complaints, but legally there is no obligation.

Really? I thought the share dilution scams were only viable in places like the TSX, and that was why many avoided the foreign exchange in favor of US firms.

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#125

Post by irrational »

Clent wrote: post #62
TexanFeller wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but many CEOs will tend to believe that things will go better with everyone back in the office Many of us SWEs believe the same!

Many or a few? Most software engineers find themselves most effective in work from home. This breaks in favor at 3:4 or higher. The software engineers that want to work in office are the odd-balls. I am interested in the break down when one factors in whatever concept of '10x developers' -- which do the most productive of us prefer?

I haven’t met any SWE that want to go back to the office. Heck, even my managers manager has said she never wants to go back, and she is a complete extrovert. These developers online that claim they want to go back must be as rare as hen’s teeth.

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#126

Post by rsj_hn »

quelltext wrote: post #110
bruce511 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being down-voted (not by me) because your point is both cynical, and common as a caricature of management. Employees need to feel safe because that improves their ability to focus on the job at hand. Employees that do not feel safe spend time updating their resume, playing office-politics games to make others look worse, spend time with other employees (detracting them) to either spread rumours or get gossip.…

That sounds like a great employer. I only have anecdotal data but from recent discussions with friends who got laid off, they all lost trust in their company's leadership and losing arbitrary team mates has made them unhappy and reduced morale. I don't know if it's something special this time but if great teammates you worked with since before the pandemic are cut off while ones joining after and never having achieve…

Higher management doesn't know who is productive and who isn't. The good lower-level managers have that visibility, and let's say the poor (or mediocre) managers don't.

But whoever has that visibility, they would have already taken steps to get rid of underperformers and replace them with good performers. Therefore good managers have disproportionately good people.

So when the senior management says "everyone lay 10% off", the good managers lay off good and bad people, and the poor managers lay off random people. The result is lots of good people get laid off, even if everyone is trying to avoid that.

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#127

Post by blowski »

spamizbad wrote: post #113
UncleOxidant wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seems to be writing for CEOs. Reading further he seems to figure that CEOs will be able to reassert control of employees by forcing them back to the office since employees are not going to be able to easily jump ship for another job. As CEO now is your opportunity to rethink remote work. You may decide you want to continue as is, or you may want to make changes. You have an opportunity to act. Not that returning t…

CEOs are also going to face significant budget scrutiny and will have to really justify signing a 10 year lease (which won't be cheap) instead of investing in things that are proven to drive growth. Class A office space outside of super expensive cities runs about $35/sqft on average. Employees need about 175 square feet each. So every employee is $6125 more expensive -- but that's only assuming you're renting somepl…

Your figures sound about right, based on my experience.

In London, the cost per employee I’ve used is £15k pa. That includes office space and maintenance, taxes, plus IT costs, entertainment, HR, etc.

The cost for fully remote employees is £9k pa. That is, the cost of the office is £6K per employee.

There are additional costs for remote employees, like remote support. But these balance against not having to buy office furniture, pay for cleaning, etc.

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#128

Post by irrational »

jjav wrote: post #105
georgemcbay wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it would be more of a toss-up if software engineers generally actually worked in real individual "offices" (like we used to, as a 49 year old I still remember the before-times). But when compared to the modern nearly-universal open office plan... yeah there's no doubt I'd much rather work from home as often as possible, and based on my experience in both environments I'll be far more productive doing the job f…

> But when compared to the modern nearly-universal open office plan... Indeed. Give me a proper office with a door, like I had for the first 18 years of my career, and I'll happily go to the office every day. But open office? Nope, nope, nope. Work from home or nothing.

Not just open office. My company doesn’t even have fixed seating. Basically you show up and wander around until you find an open desk. You have to take all your stuff with you if you need to go to a meeting or to lunch. It is ridiculous.

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#129

Post by seanhunter »

When I was running a startup there were lots of times when I felt kind of lost and it's very tempting to listen to things like this because they seem plausible. It's a huge mistake.

This kind of generic armchair general "advice"[1] is everywhere when you run a company and is basically completely useless because every company is a complex and unique special case and if you're in charge you don't have to make the decision that would on average be the right decision for companies of your type, you have to make the best decision you can for your specific situation. This goes double for people decisions because they have a huge impact on those affected so it behooves you to take the time to really do your utmost to do it right.

[1] By which I mean the kind of phoned-in powerpoint analysis that would be produced by someone with a career at a 2nd tier wannabe McKinsey consultancy

Re: Why is every layoff 10-15%?

#130

Post by [deleted] »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #114
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #112

I always assumed it was a ritual sacrifice to telegraph a message to investors that a company is reducing operating costs to pollish the annual report. This is also why employees should be nervous about firms that sync a hiring cycle with Q2/May. In the US, a CEO must make the profitable decision, or face direct legal peril. It often has nothing to do with the character of those on the board. ;)

That is at least in part an urban legend: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-co... The CEO might still get complaints, but legally there is no obligation.

[deleted]
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