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Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

nature.com

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Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#121

Post by JadeNB »

pmb_ wrote: post #82
4gotunameagain wrote: post #4

May I suggest a book to anybody that finds cephalopods interesting, especially given the connection with consciousness which is a recurring topic in these circles: Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness My only critique is that the plural spelling is octopuses and not octopi , just like the article. Octopuses just looks wrong and sounds funny, I stand my ground. Yes yes I know that i…

I'd have to give an anti-recommendation to this book. The author never explains his thesis and the book reads like his thesis was "Octopuses are cool" and spends the entire time listing fun facts and interesting stories about his interactions with cephalopods. He spends very little time drawing connections to consciousness or speaking about what octopus life can tell us about consciousness. There is a whole chapter w…

> the book reads like his thesis was "Octopuses are cool" and spends the entire time listing fun facts and interesting stories about his interactions with cephalopods.

That sounds like a recommendation to me!

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#122

Post by mentalpiracy »

klabb3 wrote: post #118
DizzyDoo wrote: post #6

As a counterpoint, The Atlantic ran an interesting article[0] yesterday suggesting that it's not really clear what the Octopuses' aims are when they do this, and that we do really like to anthropomorphize them. [0] - https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2022/11/gloomy-o...

> we do really like to anthropomorphize them. Yes, people tend to over-anthropormphize in the sense they map to specific human concepts. But otoh, we tend to greatly underestimate the complexity of animal behavior. Sometimes people mix these up. So, just because an anthropomorphization isn't correct, doesn't mean that the behavior isn't complex. Even animals like spiders and ants demonstratw incredible complex behavi…

It seems quite easy to conflate complexity with anthropomorphism, because we see ourselves as the apex, of sorts.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#123

Post by the__alchemist »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #4

May I suggest a book to anybody that finds cephalopods interesting, especially given the connection with consciousness which is a recurring topic in these circles: Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness My only critique is that the plural spelling is octopuses and not octopi , just like the article. Octopuses just looks wrong and sounds funny, I stand my ground. Yes yes I know that i…

See Also: Children of Ruin.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#125

Post by smeagull »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #4

May I suggest a book to anybody that finds cephalopods interesting, especially given the connection with consciousness which is a recurring topic in these circles: Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness My only critique is that the plural spelling is octopuses and not octopi , just like the article. Octopuses just looks wrong and sounds funny, I stand my ground. Yes yes I know that i…

For pedants it's octopodes because its a Greek root, but the sort of people who think that way are the worst and are responsible for screwing up English a lot, so fuck those nerds.

If you're speaking English then you just add an s or es. So Octopuses is right.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#126

Post by smeagull »

bananarchist wrote: post #9
4gotunameagain wrote: post #4

May I suggest a book to anybody that finds cephalopods interesting, especially given the connection with consciousness which is a recurring topic in these circles: Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness My only critique is that the plural spelling is octopuses and not octopi , just like the article. Octopuses just looks wrong and sounds funny, I stand my ground. Yes yes I know that i…

No, the plural is octopodes, just like cactus->cactodes, virus->virodes and surplus-surplodes (my favorite)

Actually we're speaking English, and not Greek or Latin, so we add an 's' or 'es'.

Just because some English professor assholes wanted to show off their knowledge of foreign languages in the 17-19th centuries, doesn't mean we should follow those rules now. They are responsible for a lot of the confusion and horrible English rules that users of English now have to deal with. I say shit on their horrible legacy.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#127

Post by dragonwriter »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #4

May I suggest a book to anybody that finds cephalopods interesting, especially given the connection with consciousness which is a recurring topic in these circles: Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness My only critique is that the plural spelling is octopuses and not octopi , just like the article. Octopuses just looks wrong and sounds funny, I stand my ground. Yes yes I know that i…

> Yes yes I know that it's not a Latin word.

It came into English from scientific (not classical) latin, so it kind of is.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#128

Post by eyelidlessness »

JadeNB wrote: post #121
pmb_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to give an anti-recommendation to this book. The author never explains his thesis and the book reads like his thesis was "Octopuses are cool" and spends the entire time listing fun facts and interesting stories about his interactions with cephalopods. He spends very little time drawing connections to consciousness or speaking about what octopus life can tell us about consciousness. There is a whole chapter w…

> the book reads like his thesis was "Octopuses are cool" and spends the entire time listing fun facts and interesting stories about his interactions with cephalopods. That sounds like a recommendation to me!

Agreed! My curiosity was piqued by OP, but this description is what actually convinced me to buy the book.

Re: Octopuses caught on camera throwing things at each other

#130

Post by Matumio »

pmb_ wrote: post #82
4gotunameagain wrote: post #4

May I suggest a book to anybody that finds cephalopods interesting, especially given the connection with consciousness which is a recurring topic in these circles: Other Minds: The Octopus, the Sea, and the Deep Origins of Consciousness My only critique is that the plural spelling is octopuses and not octopi , just like the article. Octopuses just looks wrong and sounds funny, I stand my ground. Yes yes I know that i…

I'd have to give an anti-recommendation to this book. The author never explains his thesis and the book reads like his thesis was "Octopuses are cool" and spends the entire time listing fun facts and interesting stories about his interactions with cephalopods. He spends very little time drawing connections to consciousness or speaking about what octopus life can tell us about consciousness. There is a whole chapter w…

Having read that book, yes, "Octopuses are cool" is a pretty good summary. It's worth reading it for that.

On the biology part, if you never have heard of terms like "efference copy" it will be interesting food for thought about what consciousness might be, but no "solution" really. And you'll learn that an octopus is a ten megapixel screen, but that's just the first point again. If you only want that first point, there is also a "My Octopus Teacher" on Netflix, which is great in its own way.

If you wanted to read about human intelligence, I suggest "The Secret of Our Success" by Henrich instead.

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