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Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

t.me

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Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#121

Post by immibis »

immibis wrote: post #76
XCabbage wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like who? Whenever Kiwi Farms comes up, I see these claims made about it - that people were threatened with violence, that the forum was used to coordinate harassment campaigns, that home addresses were posted, etc etc - but never with any specific examples shown of any of that happening.

Come on now. This is common knowledge and you can easily research it yourself. What you're doing right now is the moral equivalent of saying "nobody has shown me evidence that germs exist" on a COVID-19 thread.

in fact, they actually do do this, don't they? Quite a lot of COVID-19 deniers demanded proof of "isolation" i.e. they demanded someone to show them a vial of pure COVID-19 virus and then somehow prove that's really what's in the vial. And they demanded proof of "Koch's postulates" i.e. that injecting people with the stuff in the vial gives them COVID-19, etc etc.

e.g. this FOIA request: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#122

Post by byyll »

insanitybit wrote: post #85
byyll wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using your analogy with malware and spam, the users that do not want to read kiwifarms can choose not to by.. just not reading it. Or blocking it in their firewall or browser. Seems like it's a bad analogy.

Not really. Those who host malware and spam domains have them taken down. It's not just about a user receiving a spam email, it's also the fact that when a domain is being used to distribute malware the hosting provider will remove them.

That's not the case. There are a lot of hosting providers and reverse proxies that will gladly host malware and their upstream ISPs (which this thread is about, not hosting) will not block them. But what happens instead is they (either domains or IPs) get added to lists of phishing or malware enabled by default on most clients (browsers). Google has Safe Browsing and SpamHaus is probably the most popular spam list.

In contrast, nobody accidentally visits KiwiFarms. And there is nothing done to you (malware to download or your information being stolen) if you accidentally do.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#123

Post by immibis »

bigshell wrote: post #118
immibis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello readers. "bigshell" lives at 1539 William St SE, Albuquerque, New Mexico. How about all you folks who think "bigshell" is incorrect go and show him your numbers?   Now, this isn't bigshell's real address. This is a random place from Google Maps and in fact I picked a gap between existing addresses just in case. But tell me, bigshell, if this had been your real address, would you be okay with it?

My public address is on the internet if you Google my full name, it's public record as I've registered a company to my name, and it's also on WHOIS records for domain names and IP addresses. You can also find it on the White Pages, which I have nothing to do with and I have no idea how it got there and it was there before I ever had anything on public record with my name and address. I'm not thrilled with it but ever…

And how would I get from "bigshell" to your full name and company name?

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#124

Post by orangepurple »

immibis wrote: post #91
zo1 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting this at the beginning, just in case. I'm not saying that I support this website, but if we're going to be deplatforming and targeting websites, we better be damn sure that they're evil , otherwise we're just puppets of the activists. Kiwifarms triggered a cascade. They did "enough" questionable things to create a slew of articles that self-reference each other and paint a picture of "kiwi farms is a harassmen…

Last I checked, Kiwifarms was accessible intermittently on Tor and it contained pretty much the content described. What if it's not a targeted harassment campaign and the site really is evil?

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#125

Post by immibis »

dehrmann wrote: post #117
immibis wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provided someone is paying the bill and the site's location and ownership are accessible to law enforcement (like any other site). I'm not sure KF would be considered protected speech, even in the USA.

> I'm not sure KF would be considered protected speech, even in the USA. True, but I'd rather this be decided by courts than unilateral ISP action.

The courts still can decide it. Joshua Conner Moon can sue his ISP and demand they reinstate his website.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#126

Post by sonoriyuu »

haswell wrote: post #113
sonoriyuu wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's vigilantism in the sense that people are trying to take down their service on every possible layer (in this case: peering/infrastructure) but no one is willing to make a legal case against them.

But how is this vigilantism , which implies taking the law into one’s own hands? There doesn’t need to be a legal case to refuse service to someone using your services for harassment. If a group of people make a hobby out of walking into gay bars and verbally abusing customers, it’s not vigilantism to refuse service to those groups / kick them out. One can be banned from an establishment for far less.

The thing is that at a certain level, things just become essential infrastructure to function.

Moon has its own server, its own network (AS), a colocation that is willing to host his server as long as he does not violate US law or ignores incoming complaints.

But now it's the peering companies just refusing to route to them, based on some complaints that might not even be fact checked. For many that could be considered essential infrastructure, since you cannot simply start your own peering company.

For reference, his .is domain was taken down since people complained about CSAM hosted on his site. But in fact the links provided were not CSAM. But who is willing to check with that and potentially having to deal with law enforcement as a consequence for this? Likely no one, thus they drop him to stay on the safe and easy side then to protect a costumer that's could be trouble, even if some accusations are wrong.

It's a bit similar as with roads or with the post. Many people dislike Joe Rogan I guess. But imagine now disallowing him to drive on certain roads, UPS/DHL refusing to send packages to his address, AT&T disconnecting his lines because they disagree with him.

Surely at some point you cannot just build everything on your own.

And that's all for services that are (still) considered to be legal, but for which companies just are not willing to take up the heat.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#127

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

I first heard of kiwifarms in relation to swatting one of the US congressmembers ( which frankly is likely the reason we are seeing this domino falling into place ). I have no sympathy for swatters, but there are laws in place to handle those.

To me it is sad, because the trend is unmistakable. The 90s internet has been dying for a while, but it will just not be there ( or likely partially move to tor-land ) for my kids.

For all those, who are cheering this on. You are effectively stamping your approval on the concept 'forbidden knowledge' and that 'some people need to be silenced for the greater good'. I am not being hyperbolic.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#128

Post by bigshell »

immibis wrote: post #123
bigshell wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My public address is on the internet if you Google my full name, it's public record as I've registered a company to my name, and it's also on WHOIS records for domain names and IP addresses. You can also find it on the White Pages, which I have nothing to do with and I have no idea how it got there and it was there before I ever had anything on public record with my name and address. I'm not thrilled with it but ever…

And how would I get from "bigshell" to your full name and company name?

You wouldn't be able to, I don't really post anything on HN that would really tie back to my uneventful and unremarkable real life. I don't see what this has to do with the fact that if you Google someone you can find public records of them, and that you should be able to reproduce and share factual information.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#129

Post by sonoriyuu »

immibis wrote: post #106
boppo1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moon? Please loop me in. There is precedent for censorious tech conglomerates (reddit, at least) to defend people who are sex offenders. I'm no fan of Kiwifarms, but I'm also no fan of the DIY HRT guide Keffals runs that advises (often underage) people on doing home-chemistry to make hormones. Would be nice if the right could stop slandering every trans person as a mentally ill groomer and the left could stop labelin…

If you support Kiwifarms on free speech grounds, I absolutely don't see how you could fail to support a DIY HRT guide on the same free speech grounds.

The production and distribution of medication is regulated, and minors are a protected class of citizens. These are the two major issues with DIY HRT guides.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#130

Post by nyuszika7h »

boppo1 wrote: post #38
d_e_solomon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly everyone who attacks Moon supposedly committed sexual assault and is a groomer or some other slanderous attack. Moon should put up or shut up.

Moon? Please loop me in. There is precedent for censorious tech conglomerates (reddit, at least) to defend people who are sex offenders. I'm no fan of Kiwifarms, but I'm also no fan of the DIY HRT guide Keffals runs that advises (often underage) people on doing home-chemistry to make hormones. Would be nice if the right could stop slandering every trans person as a mentally ill groomer and the left could stop labelin…

I don't think you should generalize people who support censoring hate speech as defending sex offenders. There may be a small group of people who happen to do both, but most of us who have better morals would generally give the benefit of doubt to victims when there's no credible refutal of the claims. I haven't been following this specific case though so I can't say any more than that.

As for diyhrt.wiki, they added a prompt asking you to confirm you're over 18 a while ago. Of course people can just lie, but even if you do that, the site does warn of possible risks and recommends having a blood test taken once every 3 months for the first year. Also, while it's good to be cautious, the risk is still not that big. If we were talking about surgeries that would be riskier, though you can't exactly DIY that.

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