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I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

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Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#121

Post by dsfyu404ed »

albrewer wrote: post #107
oceanplexian wrote: post #41

I lived in a ranch-style home in California. Literally added a new breaker, ran 30’ of Romex rated for 50A, and wired up an EV charger in about 2-3 hours. It’s not rocket science. Now, obviously some panels don’t have the space, or the service to the house isn’t enough amps but if that’s a case why aren’t you upgrading a 50 year-old electrical panel anyway? It sounds like OP had a bunch of deferred electrical mainten…

If you don't own or didn't use a torque wrench to tighten the connections and this was awhile ago, I would go and re-torque them. Properly connecting these types of connections requires more technique than "give it five ugga duggas and it'll never move." Not saying that's what you did, but still, re-check :)

How many electricians do you see using a torque wrench?

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#122

Post by idiotsecant »

bhhaskin wrote: post #15
socialismisok wrote: post #4

"I'd have to bring my electrical systems up to code and that's expensive for my 80 year old house" Well, yeah. I suppose it would be. I'm a bit surprised this is a surprise to the landlord. Also, many of the costs here are looming anyways. It's a matter of when, not if, the electrical needs updating to meet code.

That's not necessarily true. It sounds like most of the upgrades are about convenience to the power company. Not anything safety related, which is why older properties are exempt. You also have to remember that it takes a lot of power to be able to change an EV in timely manner. It is easily the number one consumer of energy. Older neighborhoods utilities where never designed to do that.

>It sounds like most of the upgrades are about convenience to the power company. Not anything safety related

It's always painful trying to have discussions related to any kind of physical infrastructure on HN because it's absolutely full of people that assume that physical design and maintenance is somehow the trivial, easy part.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#123

Post by aynyc »

yellowapple wrote: post #119
aynyc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it would destroy poor-middle class home owners and renters. This year, it's electrical, next year is gas line, the year after is sewer, soon enough, poor-middle class won't be able to afford any homes and rents will go up. This is particular true in larger cities.

Defer code compliance to time of sale/purchase. Basically: if you want to sell it as a house, it has to be up to code, but until then, go hog-wild. Seems like that would solve the issue - and in practice I'm pretty sure that's already the case.

To bring something up to code, it takes weeks if not months. Getting permit, construction and inspection. You can't tie up a sale until that's done. Where do you get the money to pay for that? Buyer isn't gonna wait for X months, especially if buyers want to do their own renovations. You know what people will do? Pass the buck to the buyer (Sold As Is). The cycle repeats again and again.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#124

Post by turtlebits »

gorkish wrote: post #105

Siemens has a new product that basically bypasses this entire problem by installing as a mezzanine connector into the power meter. Called the ConnectDER https://connectder.com/ Regardless of what people will continue to claim, a 110V 15A outlet is really not enough. It's possible if you live your life on a strict schedule, drive very little, are very diligent about keeping your car plugged in, and don't mind having t…

It all depends on your use case. EV's aren't for everyone.

I charge at work, and L1 charging was fine for me when I was WFH during covid. I don't bother using outside chargers because L2 is too slow for short trips and fast charging is expensive.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#125

Post by Kirby64 »

breput wrote: post #76
bhhaskin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GFCI and AFCI are great! But a home isn't going to burst into flames or explode without them. Which is why there are exemptions. 240v at 30A is most definitely not a trivial load. Most homes have 100 amp service. That would be 30% of your homes total power capacity just for changing EV. You wouldn't be able to run AC and the dryer and charge an EV at the same time at that rate. But more importantly there is only so m…

They might not burst into flames, today, but these technologies weren't invented because there was no risk. > That would be 30% of your homes total power capacity just for changing EV That's the thing - most people have a 8 to 12 hour window to fully charge their car(s) overnight and when you and your neighbors are using practically no energy. Worst case is there is no active management and there is just a new peak a…

Your recommendation would require updates to the NEC to even be considered.

As it stands today, an EV charger (or an outlet designated for EV charging) is considered to be 'in use' 100% of the time from a loading perspective (i.e., when counting how big of a main breaker you need to handle). Which, honestly, makes sense. You can't predict when other loads are being used reliably, and you can use an EV charger for many hours. For, say, during the middle of the night.. there's a high heating load so that loading will happen simultaneously.

There are more intelligent ways to handle this (and, the products exist today!), however they're quite expensive. Maybe less expensive than a full new overhaul of your house's electrical... but eventually electrical needs to be updated to code.

Also, regarding 100A vs 200A main panels: it heavily depends on the size of the house. I know in my neighborhood, which the oldest house was built in 2008, they only gave 100A panels to houses that were ~1700sqft or smaller. For larger houses, those got 200A panels.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#126

Post by WorldMaker »

foogazi wrote: post #108

> As EVs become more common, more landlords will be driven to invest in vehicle charging. Can EVs become more common without tenants being able to charge them ?

Yes.

Obviously, it depends on the tenant's daily commutes especially, but at today's ranges a giant median chunk of US daily commuters could fast charge only once a week and meet their commute needs easily, with no other charges in between.

Home chargers are incredibly useful and a game changer, but also destination chargers (chargers at work or grocery stores or malls or other places where cars are parked for multiple hours) are also similarly game changers. Just having one or the other reduces (and in some cases eliminates) the need for any "fast" charges. But EVs themselves don't "require" any specific charging configuration and compared to gas have more options than ever before with home and destination options.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#127

Post by aeternum »

gorkish wrote: post #105

Siemens has a new product that basically bypasses this entire problem by installing as a mezzanine connector into the power meter. Called the ConnectDER https://connectder.com/ Regardless of what people will continue to claim, a 110V 15A outlet is really not enough. It's possible if you live your life on a strict schedule, drive very little, are very diligent about keeping your car plugged in, and don't mind having t…

110V 15A is plenty for many users. Like anything else, driving range needed is a bell-curve. You can make the situation much better for many with just access to 110V.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#128

Post by organsnyder »

Jtype wrote: post #106
saagarjha wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. The reason the grid begs you to turn off your AC is because you do it at 4 PM when there isn't enough power. EVs charge at night when demand is low.

demand won't be low if that's when everyone is charging their EVs. lol

Time-of-use pricing combined with scheduled charging solves this, and is already widely available.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#129

Post by WorldMaker »

natch wrote: post #34

You do not need an EV charger to charge your EV. A 110 or 220 outlet with a cord and an adapter will work just fine. Apologies for the US centric terminology but I expect the situation is roughly the same (though numbers vary) elsewhere. We did TWO Teslas in an apartment for two years sharing (alternating cars) a single plug of a single 110 outlet. It was fine. With this arrangement, yes, on days where you do big tri…

Yes, I think Americans especially discount the "Level 1" charge in home charging as "inadequate" when it is still sometimes an incredible game changer. Having more miles available in the morning when you wake up then when you parked the car is a difference maker even if it is only 10-12 extra miles overnight on the worst, least efficient EVs on the current market. (Most cars get much better than that. I can easily get nearly 40 miles overnight on a work night on just a 110 Level 1 charge. That covered my daily commute handily.)

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#130

Post by toomuchtodo »

aynyc wrote: post #123
yellowapple wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defer code compliance to time of sale/purchase. Basically: if you want to sell it as a house, it has to be up to code, but until then, go hog-wild. Seems like that would solve the issue - and in practice I'm pretty sure that's already the case.

To bring something up to code, it takes weeks if not months. Getting permit, construction and inspection. You can't tie up a sale until that's done. Where do you get the money to pay for that? Buyer isn't gonna wait for X months, especially if buyers want to do their own renovations. You know what people will do? Pass the buck to the buyer (Sold As Is). The cycle repeats again and again.

You require something akin to an FHA 203k loan, where the improvements can be financed with bank oversight. You make these specific improvements a requirement where, if not performed using the funds provided, the loan is in default. Cash transaction can still require the work be done; have the county recorder notify the permit office of the AHJ.

Lots of paths to success here.

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