Analysis of Apple Watch running data • Hacker News Board

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#121

Post by Maursault » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 8:41 PM UTC

sirsinsalot wrote: post #108

Maursault wrote: post #67

I question the validity of the application. Apple seems to be promoting physical health while simultaneously leveraging mental illness to increase revenue. I grant that this is an actual business space, accessorizing and promoting fitness, but these computerized accessories fundamentally distract from the individual's primary goal of getting in shape, leading to reliance on computerized devices that are unnecessary t…

I don't often say this, but you're wrong and what you're saying shows a massive misunderstanding of fitness, metabolic process and goes in the face of everything we know about our physical makeup: "Run. Run hard. Run fast. Run until you can't run any longer, and discover and accept physical limitations and push against them if your drive is unsatisfied" This is just daft. Eliud Kipchoge, and most other runners very r…

You're missing the forest for the tree. I wasn't giving instruction for exercise, I was making the miniscule point that all running requires is to run. You have entirely ignored the major point I was making to construct your straw man. All I was arguing was merely that exercise, getting fit and keeping fit, does not require wearable computing accessories to gather data second by second, the true purpose for which is stroking vanity. At these scales, the measurement is too refined to be useful. The odometer on your car does not display millimeters for a reason. Human memory and geographical awareness does the same work for free and apparently is more accurate.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#122

Post by kadoban » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 8:45 PM UTC

Maursault wrote: post #56

kadoban wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a bizarre-ass thing to go with from a serious company. They'll be getting shit for that for decades. Sorry, I guess? > This is not the nightmare scenario that non-iPhone users made it out to be. Apple haters, like any group of haters are a silly bunch. What nightmare scenario did I imply? I think you're being a little overenthusiastic here. It was just a funny example to show that Apple isn't above screwing up…

> They'll be getting shit for that for decades. I saw the original video the user that reported it created. That guy was a deceptive idiot. It was obvious that he used trial and error to find a strange, finger-spread death grip that duplicated the issue in the most severe way. What is bazaar is someone that was obsessive enough to develop a grip that produced the issue with the most effect, and used it for personal b…

> I saw the original video the user that reported it created. That guy was a deceptive idiot. It was obvious that he used trial and error to find a strange, finger-spread death grip that duplicated the issue in the most severe way. What is bazaar is someone that was obsessive enough to develop a grip that produced the issue with the most effect, and used it for personal benefit to gain notoriety.

That'd be compelling, except it started as wide-spread intemittent reports that the signal strength was just awful, but only for some people. This came up before anyone had any explanation yet, so couldn't possibly have been caused by a youtube video with a particular grip.

Turns out you just have to bridge a gap in the exposed antenna, there's no insane death grip required. It happens way more for left-handed people.

If it happens for every phone and every manufacturer equally, why/how did Apple fix it with a case?

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#123

Post by Maursault » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 8:50 PM UTC

sirsinsalot wrote: post #109

Maursault wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for you and congratulations, but it was most likely due to your own hard work along with dietary adjustment, so you need not diminish your accomplishment by giving a device as much credit as you give yourself. The Watch really didn't do anything but keep time; you yourself did everything and filled the time.

That guy who is really organised, isn't degrading his organisational skills by using a calendar. Get a grip jeez.

Comparing egotistical obsession to neatness and an Apple Watch gathering absurdly detailed metrics in a running application to a calendar is both false analogy and oversimplification. The last part is ad hominem attack.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#124

Post by Maursault » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 8:53 PM UTC

sirsinsalot wrote: post #105

Maursault wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comment is vague, but apparently what you are suggesting is that physical fitness isn't safe without using a computer. Our bodies evolved to run, and it is, actually, possible to recognize and react to what the body reports to the brain through sensation without any intermediary electronic device gathering and reporting false data. Many are capable of sensing injury or illness before overt symptoms appear, and react…

No, what they're saying is that exercise as you've described, will lead to injury and goes against ALL the traning advice of seasoned long-distance runners. But hey, go ahead.

Then they, as you, have entirely missed the point of my comment, which had nothing whatsoever to do with any exercise plan. I was instead cautioning against unnecessary reliance on affectation.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#125

Post by scott_w » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 9:16 PM UTC

This sounds like my experience of the Apple Watch Series 3—absolute garbage for exercise. I think the problem is the GPS hasn’t locked on when you start the run but there’s no way to know this in the UI. The only solution I’ve found is to “start” early, immediately pause, then wait a bit for GPS to locate you before unpausing.

Most sports watches solve this problem by explicitly telling you your GPS status when you are getting ready to track your exercise.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#126

Post by odysseus » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 9:18 PM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #61

Since the watchOS 9 update, I am the most unhealthy person ever. I saw on Reddit people have the same results but it really went mental; I walked into the local clinic for a vo2max as the watch keeps warning me; it (the watch) was 15 points off on the negative side, and so was my blood oxygen; 10% off on the wrong side. It’s pretty scary for a software update…

As a counterpoint, I saw something similar happen after upgrading to watchOS 8 for 7 months, but then I somehow got my vo2max to go back up by losing 5 pounds in 1 month and eating healthier.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#127

Post by dtf » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

Maursault wrote: post #67

I question the validity of the application. Apple seems to be promoting physical health while simultaneously leveraging mental illness to increase revenue. I grant that this is an actual business space, accessorizing and promoting fitness, but these computerized accessories fundamentally distract from the individual's primary goal of getting in shape, leading to reliance on computerized devices that are unnecessary t…

Bannister's use of a mechanical stopwatch on a 440 yard track is as much a case of cybernetics as a modern GPS or a heart rate monitor. He obviously didn't just turn up on the day and run 3:59.4. He trained for months with a stopwatch:

"Several days [per week] consisted of 10x440 in 66 seconds with a 2 minute rest. During the following months they were gradually speeded up ... to 59 seconds per 440." [1].

So aside from accuracy, what's the difference between training with the feedback of timed laps on a track (be it Bannister's mechanical stopwatch and cinder track measured in imperial units), or a modern athlete running kilometer repeats on the road via their fancy Apple or Garmin smartwatch?

If one is that much of a running purist, why measure time or distance at all?

[1] https://twitter.com/jmarpdx/status/1465431668206944256

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#128

Post by parker_mountain » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

> Disabling wifi on the Apple Watch, Bluetooth on iPhone and combinations of those, to disconnect the watch from iPhone before starting the run

Unfortunately, disabling wifi will absolutely wreck havok with getting a quick, precise lock on GPS. Also, the author didn't specify if they have a cellular model or not, which is also a factor.

More importantly, this really is an issue for Apple to fix - let people know what the GPS status is!

IMHO: the apple watch is the BEST casual fitness device. But, if you compete or are training in any serious way, it falls flat almost immediately.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#129

Post by Maursault » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 9:31 PM UTC

kadoban wrote: post #122

Maursault wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They'll be getting shit for that for decades. I saw the original video the user that reported it created. That guy was a deceptive idiot. It was obvious that he used trial and error to find a strange, finger-spread death grip that duplicated the issue in the most severe way. What is bazaar is someone that was obsessive enough to develop a grip that produced the issue with the most effect, and used it for personal b…

> I saw the original video the user that reported it created. That guy was a deceptive idiot. It was obvious that he used trial and error to find a strange, finger-spread death grip that duplicated the issue in the most severe way. What is bazaar is someone that was obsessive enough to develop a grip that produced the issue with the most effect, and used it for personal benefit to gain notoriety. That'd be compelling…

Blocking or bridging the embedded antenna on any cell phone will produce the same results. Apple is high profile, so they got the business, so to speak. Materials that do not conduct electricity like wood, drywall, plastics, and glass will impede a cellular signal, but not block it.

But I really think the problem had to do with bridging that space in the antenna with a conductive material, such as the skin on fingers. The case merely provided a few mm of room for the signal to be able to squeeze through, plus it insulated conductive skin to prevent electrical bridging and deattenuation of the antenna.

Having owned an iPhone 4, I personally never experienced the problem beyond the same exact issue I experienced with a Motorola v551, which is that when placed on a table untouched, the signal strength increased, but then touching or holding it, the signal strength decreased. This can be reliably reproduced over and over again with any cell phone in an area of weak signal. Something about the conductivity of human skin interferes with attenuation of embedded antennas, and this has been true from the first cell phones with embedded antennas and is true of all modern cell phones, that in an area of weak cell signal, any skin contact will reduce signal strength and show one or more fewer bars of signal strength until skin contact is removed.

Apple conceded to a flaw in the design and settled a class action lawsuit, but apparently a few are still needy enough to require Apple be punished forever. The complainers had nothing to compare it to, so they were all, all of them, merely mistaken, the flaw exists in all cell phones with embedded antenna. Instead of proving them all wrong, which would have been academic, Apple laid down. What more would you like them to do?

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#130

Post by Ensorceled » Sun, Sep 25, 2022, 9:37 PM UTC

My Series 3 was dead on until this spring; there is a 5k run I do 2-3 times a week where the Strava would tell me I had hit 5km within a few meters of the same tree. Then it started misbehaving, usually 100-300m short of the tree, a couple of times 50-100m beyond the tree. The path in Strava was all over the place.

I tried rebooting, reinstalling the Strava app. Cleaned up some Watch apps. Didn't get better.

Finally I deleted all the watch apps except Strava: apple store, audible, three authenicator apps (why does Authy have a watch app?), my Bank's app (wtf?) etc. etc. etc. Turned off or configured for minimal sync anything I couldn't delete.

Things started tracking again.