121–130 of 153 posts
People on both sides of this debate are exploited by the war propaganda that both sides push. It doesn't matter which side you stand on today, if you think the solution to this problem is war instead of negotiation and peace, you are being abused by everything you read and hear.
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Yes Ukraine is the biggest loser here. EU a distant second. Washington's goal is to become the defacto supplier of gas and oil to Europe and cut Russia right out of the market thereby crippling them financially. And the War in Ukraine helps to deplete Russia's military strength. This is a dangerous game as Washington is gambling that Putin won't go Nuclear even if he's losing. Moreover, so far it's just succeeded int…
What? The US master plan is to replace Russia? Years in the making it must be. The US would be perfectly content not doing so - in fact this only happened because Russia has committed a monstrous war of aggression. The US had no say in becoming Europe’s gas supplier. It happened because Europe’s preferred gas supplier is a criminal state.
The US is a hegemonic superpower, it most definitely has a say on who Europe gets its gas from. NATO is the USA. Let's not kid ourselves. That's GeoPolitics, that's RealPolitik. USA would most definitely like to supply it's surplus oil and gas to Europe.
Criminal state? What about the shelling of the Donbass for 8 years? Ukraine is one of the most, if not the most, corrupt countries in Europe.
People on both sides of this debate are exploited by the war propaganda that both sides push. It doesn't matter which side you stand on today, if you think the solution to this problem is war instead of negotiation and peace, you are being abused by everything you read and hear.
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China needs Russia. As tensions rise between China and USA regarding hegemony China will need Russian commodities. This is why Nixon sought to keep China and Russia separate. I don't know what the US State department's strategy is with Ukraine except to become energy supplier to Europe and grind Russia down. But in the process make China stronger?
Which commodities? The only useful thing Russia can offer China is gas, and that’s only because it’s cheap. Well, another thing China might want from Russia is Manchuria, but it’s not the time I think.
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1993 Ukraine joined a cooperative organization that effectively made them a defacto NATO member. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1993/07/27/US-and-Ukraine-sign-... 2013 Viktoria Nuland orchestrated a coup to oust Yanukovych because he changed his mind at signing an economic agreement with EU and signed one with Russia instead. A pro Western leader was put in place. https://consortiumnews.com/2014/02/23/neocons-and-the-u…
> a coup to oust Yanukovych because he changed his mind at signing an economic agreement with EU and signed one with Russia instead. Does a coup in a foreign country form a valid pretext for invasion you mean? > Since 2014 NATO has been training Ukrainian forces. Yes. Are you trying to argue that this forms a reasonable pretext for invading a neighboring country? Or how else is it relevant? > it's ok for Ukraine to b…
Really? So Canada can become a close ally of China? Maybe invite Chinese military to train Canadian troops? Maybe even allow the Chinese Navy to use Canadian ports?
Is Canada "free" to do that?
And there is Iraq. They were invaded because they had WMDs. Oops sorry Iraq we were wrong. Oh right Blair got Bush to get UN approval so they had to fake WMD evidence. Just ask Colin Powell.
Cuban missile crisis ended Peacefully because both Kennedy and Khrushchev wouldn't listen to their respective War hawk cabinets.
Ukraine was a defacto NATO member before the invasion.
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Again though, Zelenskiy's government isn't the post-Maidan government. It's not 2014 any more...
True. He ran for office on the promise to stop the civil war in the east and enact the Minsk agreement. Instead the shelling intensified. What's sad is up to two months ago there were UN observers in the area, publishing all their observations daily in an open public online database. If one so chooses, one can read up on the intensified shelling of the Donbass regions leading up to Russias intervention. Took me secon…
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John Meersheimer's thesis is based on Meersheimer's belief that 'Putin never lied prior to the way war not way '. Not really stable foundation to build his thesis on.
His thesis is based on Spheres of Influence. That's RealPolitik not D2P.
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> a coup to oust Yanukovych because he changed his mind at signing an economic agreement with EU and signed one with Russia instead. Does a coup in a foreign country form a valid pretext for invasion you mean? > Since 2014 NATO has been training Ukrainian forces. Yes. Are you trying to argue that this forms a reasonable pretext for invading a neighboring country? Or how else is it relevant? > it's ok for Ukraine to b…
"Of course. It's their choice as a sovereign state to have any alliance with anyone" Really? So Canada can become a close ally of China? Maybe invite Chinese military to train Canadian troops? Maybe even allow the Chinese Navy to use Canadian ports? Is Canada "free" to do that? And there is Iraq. They were invaded because they had WMDs. Oops sorry Iraq we were wrong. Oh right Blair got Bush to get UN approval so they…
That was an invasion on incorrect pretexts. But you are resorting to whataboutism again. Can one not condemn both invasions? Ukraine wasn’t part of the Iraq invasion…
> Ukraine was a defacto NATO member before the invasion.
No, NATO members are defended by the troops of other members, not just their money and equipment. You aren’t a “de facto” member otherwise.
Countries that would be defended by NATO troops (and not only NATO weapons and money) could perhaps be said to be de facto members, I’d argue that applicants like Sweden have been already before applying.
But whether or not someone is a de facto member of NATO or not doesn’t change the fact that invasions of sovereign countries are, well, bad.