It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over • Hacker News Board

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#121

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:28 AM UTC

jstarfish wrote: post #11

8jy89hui wrote: post #2

Does anyone have any insight into why Microsoft thought this was necessary? Minecraft has been server-moderated for years now and has been wildly successful. I've never heard of any hate groups or even hateful servers (I'm sure they exist, but they don't make the news in a way that would harm Microsoft). Is there some legislation that would make it a liability for Microsoft to not moderate all the chat? This move jus…

I don't know The Reason (probably child exploitation), but it's telling that within the first few comments people are discussing how to abuse the system to get Minecraft YouTubers deplatformed. The haters are in plain sight.

Just like red flag laws for firearms. Reporting systems will be abused, thus the importance of backend processes to sort it out.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#122

Post by sidewndr46 » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:30 AM UTC

ckemere wrote: post #94

It's apparently a minority voice opinion here on HN, but I for one appreciate what Microsoft is trying to do. As a parent of a 6 and 9 year old who have really gotten into Minecraft during COVID, I appreciate them basically deciding "We want Minecraft to be a game for kids and an online community that is nice." I get why people are frustrated, but I also like the idea of a global decision that forces servers open to…

Wow, this is the most entitled attitude I've seen in a long time. You let your kids play online, where they can communicate with basically anyone. So the solution is to grant a central authority total power to ban anyone who doesn't comply with the standards you want for your children.

This is the online equivalent of a homophobe complaining that two men holding hands in the park will turn their children gay.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#123

Post by ckemere » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:30 AM UTC

zbird wrote: post #110

ckemere wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? (We're somewhat new to Minecraft, so I may be missing something here.)

> I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? They'll report for no reason, that's the point of trolling. > And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? I have not played Minecraft, but I'd be surprised if the server admins of any game of such scale acted on logs. Also, I wouldn't want my kids to be logged on a corporate server. > And why are you inviting…

We've done limited server play with friends. As far as I understand, anyone can download and run the server software (literally - it's a free download). To log into a server, you need the IP address (and need to understand how to port forward if going outside the home etc etc). P

I think my broader point is that I appreciate Microsoft saying they want Minecraft to be a profanity -free zone. There are plenty in the "online community" that seem to be quite happy being G-rated. My 9-yeae old has watched about 100 hours of YouTube from "Pixlriffs" and its been wonderful despite random zombie attacks or whatnot.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#124

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:30 AM UTC

bisby wrote: post #48

garciasn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 12 year old has been bombarded with the message this is coming and will be the end of HyPixel/SkyBlock from many of the prominent Minecraft YouTubers he watches. Let me tell you: if my money is down the drain because some little jackwagon mass-reports some random server and my kids’ accounts are locked, I’m gonna be fucking furious. If the hoopla around this is true, Microsoft is going to relive its 1990s level ha…

Microsoft profits off Bedrock ("Minecraft for WIndows") because they can charge for basically everything, because there are no mods (addons). Java edition is where the mods are. Which is why hypixel/skyblock are on java edition. Ive seen speculation that Microsoft is adding this to have a process for banning java edition players. And then they just... stop selling java edition. Then there are no new java players ever…

Point of order - there are plenty of mods for Bedrock. Foxynotail has some great ones.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#125

Post by EMIRELADERO » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:30 AM UTC

caslon wrote: post #105

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people bought the game before these draconian policies were implemented? They should offer refunds.

That's not the deal with proprietary software. The deal is that you buy a license to software, the terms of which can be altered at any time. It's fundamental to the model of proprietary software. It's not theirs. It's the company's, and the company can do what they want with it. There's no reason refunds should be offered, as the consumers got what they paid for: A license to software, with certain conditions for te…

Google "contract unconscionability".

How is buying a copy of software which runs on my own computer different from buying a physical machine that runs on my electricity?

If this were using a company's servers, then fine. More power to them. In fact, that's a very fair way to do business. You're stepping in their own backyard and so they get to set the rules of the "house".

But when I run the software in my own machine, using my own processing power, while not using any online services that belong to them, how is it different than just buying a physical thing?

Your cone example is misleading because the melting is a natural consequence of the object existing at room temperature.

Software stays the same unless someone updates it. The copy of the software that I own (emphasis on "copy") does not naturally go through anything besides what the user does to it. If I disconnect from the internet, nobody can touch it.

Microsoft should have the full right to deny service to anyone, I don't think anyone here disputes that. But Minecraft is not a service, it is a good.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#126

Post by orsond » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:32 AM UTC

vermilingua wrote: post #115

orsond wrote: post #88

Hi, orsond from the fifth column here. The Fifth Column is a Minecraft hacking and griefing group. We created Project Copenhiemer which is a Minecraft server scanning tool. Copenhiemer scans the internet every 20 minutes for minecraft servers, logs players, server versions, mods and more. Originally we had created it to find players and grief their server worlds, highlighting how much information about players is lea…

How do you propose MS/Mojang determine who is and is not an actual child? Require parents to provide legal documents of their children? Photographic confirmation? Time and time again it has been proven that attempts to segregate the internet into adult/child zones will fail.

No idea. They should figure it out. The point is that their solution doesn't and will not work in solving this problem.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#127

Post by EMIRELADERO » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:32 AM UTC

zbird wrote: post #111

caslon wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the deal with proprietary software. The deal is that you buy a license to software, the terms of which can be altered at any time. It's fundamental to the model of proprietary software. It's not theirs. It's the company's, and the company can do what they want with it. There's no reason refunds should be offered, as the consumers got what they paid for: A license to software, with certain conditions for te…

Why is this downvoted? This is literally the TOS of much proprietary software out there. People don't read the TOS?

Most people don't read ToS/EULAs. Only now you come to realize this?

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#128

Post by jdbernard » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:33 AM UTC

caslon wrote: post #105

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people bought the game before these draconian policies were implemented? They should offer refunds.

That's not the deal with proprietary software. The deal is that you buy a license to software, the terms of which can be altered at any time. It's fundamental to the model of proprietary software. It's not theirs. It's the company's, and the company can do what they want with it. There's no reason refunds should be offered, as the consumers got what they paid for: A license to software, with certain conditions for te…

You're right, but the difference is that I don't think most people know it's coming, despite how much we try to shout about it.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#129

Post by babypuncher » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:34 AM UTC

ckemere wrote: post #94

It's apparently a minority voice opinion here on HN, but I for one appreciate what Microsoft is trying to do. As a parent of a 6 and 9 year old who have really gotten into Minecraft during COVID, I appreciate them basically deciding "We want Minecraft to be a game for kids and an online community that is nice." I get why people are frustrated, but I also like the idea of a global decision that forces servers open to…

At first I found it frustrtating, but I've grown to really appreciate Nintendo's approach to this problem. Their multiplayer games (like Splatoon) have no in-game chat or VOIP.

It definitely makes it harder to make friends in the games, but it also completely eliminates any and all potential for toxicity and other miscreant behavior. As a result, I'd have no problem letting my hypothetical children play these games online even at a young age.

This solution is obviously untenable for a cooperative and creative game like Minecraft, so it seems Microsoft is stuck in a real hard place here.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#130

Post by ckemere » Fri, Sep 09, 2022, 2:34 AM UTC

JetAlone wrote: post #112

ckemere wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I don't understand - the troll will report your 6 year old for dropping f-bombs? And the chat logs (which MS will now have) will back then up? And why are you inviting trolls to play with your 6 year old? (We're somewhat new to Minecraft, so I may be missing something here.)

It seems that anyone can report anyone else, on any server, even tiny private ones. They have to say what kind of complaint it is from a list, but a disingenuous actor can find ways to stretch the definitions or just outright lie about the incident. Whichever person or whatever machine is in charge of reviewing these complaints decides the report is valid, that person is banned from all online play. I'm not seeing fr…

> I'm not seeing from this thread any info on what the appeals system is like, but I would be completely unshocked if it were, once again, a system where people who aren't highly invisible on social media will end up SOL.

I totally get this. My support is for the sentiment Microsoft is expressing. As with so many things online without the actual commitment of real people who are culturally connected (e.g. Daniel and Scott for HN), it will likely go south.