Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Our local businesses don't have enough workers due to unattainable housing. due to not paying enough
There is no workforce. It's not a matter of paying more, it's a lack of workers aka families. The average age of someone living on Cape Cod has increased every year for decades. The cost of housing after COVID went from "unreasonable" to "insane". Local businesses and towns are throwing money at the few young people still here in an attempt to recruit workers but there just isn't enough to handle the scale up for sum…
The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
121–130 of 817 posts
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#122How is that different from other places? Houses in the center of big cities are always a lot more expensive than others far away from it. Want a small one in the center of Rome? Here you are: 27mq, 2nd floor and no elevator, no heating, no air conditioning, abysmal energy efficiency, no kitchen, renovation needed, only €600,000. What a bargain!
https://www-tecnocasa-it.translate.goog/vendita/appartamenti...
No thanks, I'll rather spend less than one third for the 7 times bigger house I'll be soon relocating to. I lived most of my life near the center of Rome; if you come as a tourist I concur it can be a wonderful experience, but after decades of traffic, noise and pollution, leaving for a much quieter and cleaner place with plenty of space for my hobbies is the best thing I could do. And it's also much cheaper. YMMV of course.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Portuguese case is quite different, I think. Canada has a well-developed and diversified economy. Portugal needs to import a lot from the world, but has very little to offer in exchange. They found something: their real estate and city center spaces. The country NEEDS this foreign income. It's not a self-sustainable economy and the world won't work for them for free. If the Portuguese want to solve this issue, on…
The question in my mind is how can a country like Portugal grow something home grown, industry/economy wise to ameliorate this situation? Ukraine had traditional industries but it seems like the IT/knowledge worker base they built up over the past 5-10 years seems to be softening some of the economic blows of the war for them, but I can't imaging IT is the answer to every country...
Ironically, excellent education might be one of the most positive legacies the Communist regimes left to Eastern European countries, and part of why countries like Estonia or Poland will be better poised in the near future.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US is pretty bad from this point of view from what I recall, compared to other places where it's generally legal to build a broader variety of housing in cities. But perhaps it just got bad here early compared to other places. Portugal's demographics, like much of western Europe, didn't look like they were going to change dramatically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Portugal - so getting set up to…
> The US is pretty bad from this point of view from what I recall, compared to other places where it's generally legal to build a broader variety of housing in cities. It's really impossible to make generalizations about the legalities go building in the US, as there is no federal control over such things. There are some state-level laws in some states, but for the most part zoning is left up to cities and counties,…
This is an interesting book about the history of it all: https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780801479878/zone...
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#125Yes, the situation is dire. I live in Lisbon as a foreigner for more than 12 years now. We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city. Luckily, we have an older contract that cannot be changed as easily as newer ones. I'm not thrilled by the possibility that our landlord might cancel it some day, however, e.g. for relatives to move in. Rents in t…
https://www.architectmagazine.com/practice/how-to-fight-weal...
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#126Sounds like the Portuguese government should start building flats as fast as possible. Other countries in the EU do it and it works.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#127Some Canadian cities responded to this with a foreign buyers tax, notably in Vancouver. Florida has a method for balancing its "snowbird" population to do with foreign buyers. Personally, I think this is the effect of governments themselves no longer believing in nations and borders or a responsibility for them, and simply importing polarized populations of both very rich and very poor people whose effect in concert…
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#128Some Canadian cities responded to this with a foreign buyers tax, notably in Vancouver. Florida has a method for balancing its "snowbird" population to do with foreign buyers. Personally, I think this is the effect of governments themselves no longer believing in nations and borders or a responsibility for them, and simply importing polarized populations of both very rich and very poor people whose effect in concert…
The Portuguese case is quite different, I think. Canada has a well-developed and diversified economy. Portugal needs to import a lot from the world, but has very little to offer in exchange. They found something: their real estate and city center spaces. The country NEEDS this foreign income. It's not a self-sustainable economy and the world won't work for them for free. If the Portuguese want to solve this issue, on…
Maybe, but only if the increase in wages paid keeps up with the rising rents. And remember that in unregulated capitalism, most of the income from increased economic activity is captured by the wealthiest tiers, with only negligible increases for the vast majority. The rising tide indeed raises all boats, but it raises some boats far more than most. If rent rises 10% but median wages rise only 2%, most people will be losing ground, not gaining.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#129I think this title is a bit sensationalist. It's true that a middle class Portuguese, with the extremely heavy income/property taxes we have to pay, will find it very difficult to live in Lisbon's or Porto's city center in a medium-upper apartment.
Lisbon (and even more Porto) do have an extensive metro line though, and you can rent/buy an apartment on the outskirts (although still served by metro line), even with the low liquid wages. But more than that, vast areas of the country are extremely deserted and housing is extremely cheap there (a similar house in the interior goes for about 20% of one in Lisbon/Porto).
Also, there's the problem of the government having destroyed most of the middle class to embezzle the metric of the "minimum wage". Constant mandates to increase the minimum wage (and very heavy taxes on anyone that earns more than that), make so that companies can't discriminate between good and bad workers. Most workers get paid almost the same, and as such, there's no point in trying to be a better worker.
I'm one of the "lucky ones" because I bring home about €2000/month. My company has a total cost with my salary after taxes and other state contributions of €3880/month.
Now, I know that you can have the argument that we get a lot of "free" services in return, but, sadly, no, we don't. Decades old mismanagement (governments use these "free" services to cater to their party members and get them nice administration positions for which they don't have any experience) and some outright corruption, destroyed the quality of most of these "free" services.
The SNS is in absolute shambles. Our mortality rate is the highest since 1913 (ok, you can attribute that COVID). Our infant mortality rate, the highest since 1982 (sorry, but you can't say this one is due to COVID). Now, what happened to cause this? 7 years ago, we got a center-left government into power, one of their first measures was to destroy a system where the hospitals were public, but the management was done by a private company - these hospitals had much better metrics for both costs and quality of service. They abolished that, and replaced the hospitals' administration by party members. This is the result.
Like it happened with the SNS, similar stuff happened in a lot of other areas. In the end, the government's answer is always the same: increase taxes - which strangulates the economy and destroys the middle class, and, funnily enough, transforms us all into people dependent on "government's money" and their subsidies - that ensures that they keep in power because nobody can imagine living without those "free" services with the low liquid wages we have.
Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal
#130There’s much truth here, but it isn’t the entire picture. Lisboa and Oporto are hideously overpriced, and it is indeed hard to see how a normal Portuguese earner can afford to live in either. Even Vila Nova de Gaia, which was the “cheap” side of Oporto, is now parlously expensive. This effect has bled along the coast, and many coastal villages now ask €200k for an unmodernised one bedroom house. But… the interior of…
Well, compared to capitals in some countries in Europe, that is still cheap! Try half a million for a completely empty run-down flat.