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IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

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Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#121
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems highly likely to me that anyone claiming this document is intimidating either has not read it or is lying for some reason. I used to be a fan of iFixIt, and have even bought one of its larger tool kits, but have lost respect for it in the last few years. In part, because any time Apple does anything , iFixIt is there with a snarky criticism. Like it just really really really needs the clicks. I don't mind pe…

I've changed parts on several Apple laptops and one Mac Mini using iFixit manuals. In every case, it was really useful to read all the comments left by readers. Sometimes the comments tell you that you can skip several steps, in some cases they point out when you need to be extra careful or when the iFixit photos were misleading.

> ...and one Mac Mini using iFixit manuals.

Were you upgrading the hard drive in a 2014 mac mini?

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#122

What a stupid take as is increasingly the case with ifixit. How does adding manuals and parts make something LESS repairable? At worst you are no better off than you started. And for all the crap apple gets for things like their batteries, I used to do fleet battery stuff on dell machines using a third party providers and the rate at which these machines BURNED through batteries was insane. THis was a while back, and…

Applecare screen replacement is a breeze, if you live near an Apple store. Walk into scheduled appointment, hand them your phone and sign your name on their little iPad granting them the permission to repair or replace your device and dealing with payment, and they tell you to come back an hour or two later and pick up your device. I always buy Applecare and have had to replace each of my last iPhones at least once t…

Wow, wasn’t expecting downvotes on something that seemed non-controversial like this.

I wonder am I getting downvoted because I’m a klutz and have broken a bunch of iPhones, or is it because I didn’t have a negative experience with AppleCare?

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#123
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the replacement process for an EVs battery pack also is involved and requires a lot of work. I also imagine the official replacement process will not involve individual cell replacement and will likely be an entire pack that may also include BMS units or other components.

> I also imagine the official replacement process will not involve individual cell replacement Since when has it involved that? Even back when cellphones were repairable, trying to fix a broken battery by manipulating the cells is a suicide mission. I get that you're trying to illustrate that "density has a repairability cost", but I think that's entirely redundant, since: - Apple can throw money at this issue and fi…

>Since when has it involved that? Even back when cellphones were repairable, trying to fix a broken battery by manipulating the cells is a suicide mission. I get that you're trying to illustrate that "density has a repairability cost"

Sure, for a small battery pack like that, but an EV's battery pack is made of self contained replaceable cells. It would be perfectly possible to replace the individual cells and save the exterior casing and any internal electronics. But the official dealer process is almost certainly going to replace the entire thing as a single unit.

My point was't "density has a repairability cost", it was that sometimes for the sake of ease, repeatability or reliability a manufacturer may decide to bundle individually replaceable components into a single module that will be replaced as a whole unit as part of the repair process and that can be a reasonable decision. We see this all the time with cars. Transmissions are rebuildable, but usually you just replace the whole thing. Same with alternators. Engines are absolutely rebuildable, but if you blow yours, the dealer will almost certainly just replace it wholesale. Wiring harnesses can be patched, but the service manuals will tell you to replace the whole thing. A single switch in your steering wheel controls might be broken, but likely the entire control cluster will be swapped. These things don't make the car "less repairable", nor does the fact that the manufacturer's manual only tells you how to replace the whole thing, and won't sell you anything other than the whole part mean you can't piece it together yourself or that they're somehow hindering you from repairing your car.

Likewise, the battery being bundled with the top case is a choice made for a reason. I suppose we can assume it's because Apple is trying to make it unrepairable, but that flies in the face of the fact that they need to make repairs themselves. It's clear apple can make it separable (see the Macbook Air repair options), and the article in question even says Apple plans on doing the same for the other Macbooks. so it really feels like a lot of this is complaining that Apple hasn't gone out of their way to tool up an entirely new set of assemblies outside of what they provide their own in house repair people, and assuming this is do to maliciousness rather than simply doing the most reasonable thing which is opening up their own official processes and parts to the public.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older batteries were rated for 500 cycles so that doesn’t seem unusual.

Except 80% is regarded as pretty much EOL, and this is a 2017 model.

Apple is too late to implement battery protection feature (limit max charging%) for always AC connected machine. It's implemented in 2019 meanwhile 2000s ThinkPads supported that.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#126
after watching Louis for almost a year when i couldn't sleep, reparability requires:

1) parts that aren't glued together (or riveted like the butterfly keyboard)

2) schematics of the boards

3) parts (including individual MB components) available

bonus) not routing 48V backlight supply lines at 0.1mm of LDVS CPU lines.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I replaced the keyboard on a unibody era MBP. (2011 ish, the one with the dvd drive that needed to have the hard drive cable replaced every few years because it would wear at a corner and short against the case). It had 50+ absolutely tiny screws, requiring a 000 Phillips head, probably about the size of the little ones in iPhone 6s, but all about 2mm long.

I, too, suffered through this ordeal in the name of self-repair. The worst of it was having to, every now and then, file a slot into a tiny screw I'd stripped (#%!*) so I could continue with a flathead screwdriver.

Genuine Wiha phillips head screwdrivers are magic at not stripping screws. So much so that many cheap no-name sets will imitate the red knob and dark grey finish to piggyback on that.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#128
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I purchased a battery (just a battery) for my 2013 MBP. It was a pain to replace, but I replaced it with the help of an iFixIt guide. I believe it's that kind of guide people expected Apple to publish. So you may be right that it's always been Apple's policy, but the point was that the self-repair program is falling short of expectations. iFixIt set a standard and Apple has fallen short.

Why would anyone expect the self service process setup by Apple to be anything other than the same processes they have for their own repair people though? I don’t expect a car manufacturer to release parts and instructions they wouldn’t have their own service people follow. It’s reasonable to debate the merits of having the battery tied to the top case on the whole, but if it’s what Apple directs their own repair per…

A car manufacturer which claimed you needed to replace the whole front end of the car to replace the battery would be ridiculed by everyone and soon be out of business. The fact that those batteries are glued down is not a valid reason to replace the whole top as is shown by the multitude of mobile devices with glued-down batteries which can be replaced without problems. They either have some strip you can pull to loosen the battery or a set of instructions on where to push a thin piece of plastic underneath the battery to lift it. Apple can do this as well but they don't want to

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone expect the self service process setup by Apple to be anything other than the same processes they have for their own repair people though? I don’t expect a car manufacturer to release parts and instructions they wouldn’t have their own service people follow. It’s reasonable to debate the merits of having the battery tied to the top case on the whole, but if it’s what Apple directs their own repair per…

A car manufacturer which claimed you needed to replace the whole front end of the car to replace the battery would be ridiculed by everyone and soon be out of business. The fact that those batteries are glued down is not a valid reason to replace the whole top as is shown by the multitude of mobile devices with glued-down batteries which can be replaced without problems. They either have some strip you can pull to lo…

You’re probably in for a nasty surprise when you look up the process for replacing the battery pack in an EV, which is a more apt comparison than the standard hunk of lead and acid in an ICE car. Just like Apples laptops, EVs are trying to cram batteries into every possible space to maximize capacity, meaning that replacement will involve some substantial disassembly.

And yes, Apple can do it and has even said they’re going to do it. So at this point, it’s just a matter of guessing for why they don’t do it now. And that could be any number of reasons, including easier manufacturing or in a surprise twist maybe easier repair. Look at the ifixit instructions and look at the spacing available to access the pull tabs for the adhesive around the various frame parts. It’s entirely reasonable to think that Apple did some math on battery repair frequency; on that fact that even when an M* systems battery is at the 80% mark where it’s eligible for repair that it will still be near or over 100% of the old intel laptop runtimes when new; evaluated the chances of those adhesive tabs breaking or having the battery or top case damaged while removing one or the other and decided that bundling the two together and eating the cost on battery repairs was the easier option for their repair people. Because ultimately Apple’s priorities likely are ease of manufacture first, ease of store based repair second and ease of user based repair third. Because even with really easy user based repair, I would venture to say close to 90% of people will still have Apple do it for $200. And I say that based both on the fact that Apple used to offer various DIY repair options for older models* and people have their mechanic or AutoZone replace their car batteries for them even though that’s literally just 2 bolts.

* I worked for an Apple authorized repair place in the G5 iMac days, in which for example the power supply was “user replaceable” and for which Apple offered customers DIY repair options on them. I can count on one hand, with fingers to spare, the number of customers who took us up on the option to order the part and do it themselves, even if having us do it meant longer turn around times. On the whole people don’t DIY repairs for things, and so engineering and manufacturing for that use case is probably a worse decision than engineering and designing for your own people and while those people might benefit from DIY friendly features, if that makes manufacture harder or more expensive, then that’s still likely a net negative trade off.

Re: IFixit: Self Repair Program makes M1 MacBooks less repairable

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A car manufacturer which claimed you needed to replace the whole front end of the car to replace the battery would be ridiculed by everyone and soon be out of business. The fact that those batteries are glued down is not a valid reason to replace the whole top as is shown by the multitude of mobile devices with glued-down batteries which can be replaced without problems. They either have some strip you can pull to lo…

You’re probably in for a nasty surprise when you look up the process for replacing the battery pack in an EV, which is a more apt comparison than the standard hunk of lead and acid in an ICE car. Just like Apples laptops, EVs are trying to cram batteries into every possible space to maximize capacity, meaning that replacement will involve some substantial disassembly. And yes, Apple can do it and has even said they’r…

No, the EV pack is not an apt comparison, the battery packs in e.g. those Thinkpads I have around here are. One of them (a T550) has an internal battery pack in addition to the easily replaceable one. It can still be replaced easily after removing the (clearly marked) screws and removing the pack.

As to your experience working for an Apple authorised repair centre I'd suggest that the intersection between Apple users and DIYers is probably smaller than that between e.g. Thinkpad users and DIYers. Part of the appeal of the Apple world lies in its appliance-like nature where things (are supposed to) 'just work', not in its openness to tinkering.

As an aside I must say I'm surprised in the fervour with which these Apple strategies are defended. It is not hard to design a glued-down battery which can be removed by pulling a few tabs as is common in many mobile devices, why defend this clearly wasteful practice? Maybe Apple keyboards are (or were, at least during the 'butterfly keyboard' years - 2015-2019) close to being shot around the time the battery wears out but even so it would be easy to make that keyboard replaceable.

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